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Thread: Lactate Threshold Training

  1. #2021

    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    My sprinters don't cool down in training, and rarely at meets. My distance group cools down after every race.

    Is this is the same for others? (Or am I the lone guy who does all range of track events? )

  2. #2022
    Member sady's Avatar
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris6878 View Post
    No link because he saw it in a dream........
    You are a bit tough.

  3. #2023
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    Part 2 read the comments part where mike adds a few tidbits.

    This is a common thing in the uk for some time, I remember an old session similar to Charlie's depletion press ups but with light squats and in between sets you would sit cross legged on the floor

    Killer!!!!

  4. #2024
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    Quote Originally Posted by a-j View Post
    Part 2 read the comments part where mike adds a few tidbits.

    This is a common thing in the uk for some time, I remember an old session similar to Charlie's depletion press ups but with light squats and in between sets you would sit cross legged on the floor

    Killer!!!!
    This is interesting information, and it's something I have heard before from my Pfaff-influenced former coach down in Texas. I haven't seen the study that Mike is referring to, but I question whether a cool-down of perhaps 4x60 or so can actually be that detrimental. Do they also want you to skip stretching and just pack it in after a hard lactate session? This is all very unclear.

    I wonder what the controls were in the article? Was the cooldown they compared against full of a bunch of slogging, e.g. a mile of jogging? If it was the cooldown highly dissimilar to the workout itself I can see their point.

    When a cooldown consists of 4x60 and long hold stretches I can't see it being that detrimental, but hey, I haven't seen the study yet.
    Last edited by T-Slow; 07-03-2013 at 05:19 PM.

  5. #2025
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    Are there any athletes performing and what level. Too many studies not enough work getting done.

  6. #2026
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    I'll try to dig up the study...

  7. #2027
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    I've heard some well known coaches don't see the value in the cool-down. It's been said that it makes no difference an hour after the session if you have cooled down or not. I think it's important to indicate, too, when this is for-between track work and weights or after everything is done or what exactly and what is specifically being indicated as a cool-down, a jog, the stretch, both or what exactly? Some have indicated doing some med ball throws like Boo Schexnayder and/or easy skipping/side shuffle, backpedal etc. to re-coordinate the body after all of the major training components are completed.

    I will say that on a speed/weights day, I feel it's important to elevate the heart rate/increase the sweating somewhat after the weights just for the purpose of being able to get a decent static stretch routine in even though the fibers are certainly not as pliable on those days as on tempo days.

  8. #2028
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    I've heard some well known coaches don't see the value in the cool-down. It's been said that it makes no difference an hour after the session if you have cooled down or not. I think it's important to indicate, too, when this is for-between track work and weights or after everything is done or what exactly and what is specifically being indicated as a cool-down, a jog, the stretch, both or what exactly? Some have indicated doing some med ball throws like Boo Schexnayder and/or easy skipping/side shuffle, backpedal etc. to re-coordinate the body after all of the major training components are completed.

    I will say that on a speed/weights day, I feel it's important to elevate the heart rate/increase the sweating somewhat after the weights just for the purpose of being able to get a decent static stretch routine in even though the fibers are certainly not as pliable on those days as on tempo days.
    I never stretched much until my warm up progressively went along. Most of my stretching happened over time with in the training session as I got hotter moved to doing the higher intensity work.
    Someone asked the other day what we used to do between runs when the speed started to happen? Routinely between runs when our breaks were 4 minutes or more I would stretch and then laid down and shook my legs until the time was up to run again. As the speed session progressed so did the stretching. I always jogged down but never more than one lap or we did shaking of 200 meters not much more. There is no way I was going to get a massage or treatment if I did not properly warm down and do anything or everything in my power to facilitate muscle recovery. Even if the requirement was a tiny jog that took 5 minutes .. the belief was it mattered and it helped.
    I guess I feel an easy jog or something somewhat relaxed makes a ton of sense to begin the needed process of getting the muscles to restore circulation after great amounts of work. Just as the progressive warm up opposed to a forced warm up which I see all too often. The body does not respond terribly well to abrupt anything short or long term. Some people have great tolerance to bad training and some do not. I guess my view of performance is longer term as well and I am not looking at one moment of time but hope to be always performing because I took good care of my muscles.

  9. #2029
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    Concurrent Training for the High School Season

    A few years ago I had an 18 year old boy and girl who wanted to run fast 400m times and break our school records. Long story short, the boy beat the record of 50.0 running 48.9 (opening in April at 51.7). The girl had pre-existing stress fracture, but ran a season ending personal best coming off bike workouts prior, running mid 61. The results were quite astounding considering the little time we had in our season (10 weeks total), and the limited time prior to meets (3-4 weeks). Both also ran great 200m times throughout the year. The boy ended up setting the record at 22.3 (starting the first meet in April 23.7)

    That summer I experimented with the Concurrent model by adding in some acceleration and sled sprint days once every 2 weeks. We went through a 6 week GPP doing 3 days a week (2-3 days tempo between). Then went through a 4 week transition as directed. We tested often to track progress and 300times and 60m times improved quite a bit, while 150 times were fairly stagnant for all athletes.
    This past season I decided to use a similar set up for a few reasons. First, my boys and girls both had successful 200m times and 4x200 relays, along with a strong 4x400m girls relay returning. I felt a 200/400m focus would get good results for the relays. Another reason behind this is the program develops incredible work capacity. I had few sprinters who had potential to make state finals in the 100 and 200m plus both relays. This would mean on those meets, their day would look like this:

    100m prelim (20-30 min break)
    200m prelim (30-45 min break)
    100m semi (30-45 min)
    200 semi (60 minutes
    100m final (15-20 minutes)
    4x200 final (30-40 min)
    4x100 final (30-40)
    200 final

    It turned out no one had to do this. I had a 17 year old girl decide to run the 100, 400m, and 4x400 at regionals. Her day was like this:
    100m semi (hour)
    100m final (20 minutes)
    4x200 final (30 minutes)
    400m final (90 minutes)
    4x400 final.
    Last edited by ESTI; 08-04-2013 at 01:28 AM.

  10. #2030
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    Re: Lactate Threshold Training

    Starting the season

    This spring weather was terrible. Most days were in the 30F range, often snow and very windy. The “smart” move is to move them inside, but knowing the history of our weather here, it was likely we would run in crappy weather. We did in our first meet being 32F, rain/snow mix and wind (Our kids ran near PBs that meet to boot!).

    A combination of cold weather and a limited track time due to other sports using the field likely led to many kids getting quad tightness. With so many runs being under fatigue, it’s likely to get the runs “done” forced effort came from quads. As weather warmed these issued went away.
    Here is how I structured the first few weeks:

    Mon: 2x4x150 (rest was jog, walk, jog, set rest) {Considered hard tempo session as times were not fast}
    Tuesday: Tempo
    Wed 5x200 in come home pace. I ball park it since I don't know everyones personal best yet. I'm pretty good at estimating my group. For most this is intensive tempo work and for the older kids, specific work for finishing strong in the 200/400
    Thur: tempo
    Fri: tempo (scheduled acceleration day on wed, but had to move it to today, then went to tempo when several kids complained of excessive tightness in calf and quads. Obviously most have not done much over winter so this is expected.)
    Sat/Sun: Off

    Mon: Sprint ladder (modified due to ice on one complete turn) 200, 150, 100, 50, 40, 30, 20
    Tues: indoor mat tempo, 2 x 10 x 30 seconds (30 sec rest was one of the ab circuit exercises) one person ran, one person did abs at same time, then switched.
    Wed: 2x300+150. Today was cold but with only a few runs, we rested inside the team lockeroom by the track during the set break. Overall great workout considering the temperatures
    Thur: tempo
    Fri: warm-up and baton work for meet tomorrow
    Sat: meet (various distances, 60, 200, 400)

    Monday March 25 did 3x3x30 tire sprints, then 3x30 standing sprints.
    Tuesday: tempo
    Wed March 27: Temp was a cool 45.

    We had a team meeting about paperwork, spring break plans etc. By the time we were done, it was 4pm and at 430 was a soccer game. The kids who warmed up at 3pm were certainly cold now. Since so many were tight and sore, we did a 10 minute easy jog and then did about 20 minutes using microstretching technique for various stretches on muscles being complained about. Many felt better when we finished.

    Thursday Mar 28 50F !!! Great weather today.
    The group did 300+4x60, 250+3x60, 200+2x60, and 150+60
    At this point our spring break began and kids had 10 days “off” but I still held workouts. I don’t have record but do remember them doing a 5x200 session towards the end of the week.
    When we got back, more cold weather and our first outdoor meet on Thursday. The weather was terrible for the meet. The team was weak and we got away without any issues.
    Friday was essentially recovery tempo and lots of stretching.


    Monday: pre-meet warm up/batons
    Tuesday meet
    Wed: tempo 1+2+3++ up to 4 sets for older kids, 2 sets for younger kids
    Thursday was high quality day but we had thunderstorms and had to run in the hallway. The 400/300mH specialists did 4x60+150 for 2 sets (supposed to be 4x60+200 for 2 sets). The 100/200 group did blocks, accels, EFE and 2x60 full recovery.
    Fri: pre-meet
    Sat: meet: 2-3 events. Weather sucked and cold again (high 30s-low 40s)


    Monday: (100m specialists did a few resisted sprints and block starts to 20-30m; 200/400 did 3x100 at race pace on turn), then all did 4x150 with the alternate jog recoveries.
    Tuesday: pre-meet
    Wed meet
    Thursday: tempo
    Friday: pre-meet
    Sat: meet (1 event only)

    Monday: pre-meet
    Tuesday: meet (lots of PRs as weather was warm)
    Wed: tempo
    Thurs: 4x60+200 for 2 sets
    Fri: premeet/tempo:
    Saturday: meet: 2-3 events

    Monday: premeet
    Tuesday: Last dual meet
    Wed: tempo
    Thursday: don’t recall, but likely 4x150, as I rotated 4x60+200 with 4x150 every other week.
    Friday: premeet
    Saturday: some girls ran, some did not. Some did workout at meet during lunch break. A fast 120m for one girl and a fast 80m for another girl.


    Monday: Taper week: 400m did race model on turns, 2x50 into turn, 2x50 off turn, then 1x80 fast
    Tuesday: tempo/batons
    Wed: batons, blocks for those who need it, 95% 60m
    Thursday pre-meet
    Friday: regionals
    Sat: off


    Monday: premeet
    Tuesday: league championship (3-4 events—up to 6 races for some)
    Wed: warm-up warm down
    Thursday: county meet (weather was terrible and my state final qualifiers did not run
    Friday-Sun: off

    Monday: 4x50 race model, 1x80m
    Tuesday: tempo, 4x400 batons
    Wed 1x60m fast but relaxed, race model turns
    Thursday tempo, batons
    Fri: travel (2 hour drive, warm up at track)
    Sat: State finals (B ran a pb of 59.60)
    Last edited by ESTI; 08-04-2013 at 01:29 AM.

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