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Thread: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

  1. #111

    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    I am from Milwaukee, WI, which has some cold falls and springs. Meets spanning 4/1-5/15 will seldom be above 70 degrees (F). Anything over 55 is pretty warm. My 100m PB came at a night meet where it was 43 at race time. That's just part of the deal around here. I actually like it on the cooler side as long as it's not rainy/windy. The hot makes me lethargic.

    For me, I'll do speed work down to around 40 degrees and tempo down to around 30.

  2. #112
    Member RB34's Avatar
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Actuary400m View Post
    I am from Milwaukee, WI, which has some cold falls and springs. Meets spanning 4/1-5/15 will seldom be above 70 degrees (F). Anything over 55 is pretty warm. My 100m PB came at a night meet where it was 43 at race time. That's just part of the deal around here. I actually like it on the cooler side as long as it's not rainy/windy. The hot makes me lethargic.

    For me, I'll do speed work down to around 40 degrees and tempo down to around 30.
    Curious what you would do if you had no indoor track and 30 degrees inseason? Here in NC we have some decent programs and many don't have indoor tracks. I'm sure they are outdoors running (duke, nc state, wake forest, A&t, St Augs) just to name a few. A&T has a really good sprint program.

  3. #113
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    I'm sure they are running outside too. They are 20 years old. And how many of these kids will be elite sprinters? And if they do become elite sprinters I bet they won't be training 24/7 in NC. It's simply not sustainable if you are going to compete against people from or training in conditions like Florida, CA and Jamaica or having both indoor and out door tracks.

    I'm sure you can innovate and be creative as well and I'm also sure some can handler cooler temps and some not so much. Makes sense right?

    Also, the more muscle density you have, the more you need to warm up and rely on your fitness to maintain your heat. Use thermogenic things like good fats ( flax seed oils or coconut oils in your coffee or shakes) and layers of clothing to keep you warm. Prioritize only what needs to be done outside and if possible stay in and only go out when you need to use the track.

  4. #114

    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post

    I'm also sure some can handler cooler temps...

    Also, the more muscle density you have, the more you need to warm up and rely on your fitness to maintain your heat...
    I seem to be one that handlers cooler weather better; on the contrary, hot is not my thing. I don't have a lot of muscle, so perhaps that is a part of the reason (6'0", 167lb).

  5. #115
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Handles not handler. Typo, sorry.

  6. #116

    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Handles not handler. Typo, sorry.
    And I inadvertently copied it! Funny how the brain works (or doesnít).

  7. #117

    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Stu makes a lot of outlandish claims which is mostly pseudo-scientific gibberish. I recall watching videos of Andre doing a single-leg rotation with a twist leading up to WC along with some gibberish reasoning by Stu. Andre subsequently pulled his hamstring. At the time I thought why would they put such load on the biceps femoris so close to a major comp.

  8. #118
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    ...and now from the most recent podcast installment McMillan states (Pacey podcast) the most common reason so many strength coaches believe so much in the use of the squat(heavy) to develop speed is because Charlie apparently was very active on social media (?!) and described how Ben squatted 600 lbs. the day before the Seoul final. He needs to get his facts straight. Charlie refuted this story many times whether the version said the day before or the day of and it was, as I recall, Charles Poliquin who pushed this story. Charlie first described some of his methods that I can recall in an Ironman magazine article from 1990 (Joe Horrigan), then Speed Trap and followed by CFTS. I don't recall any social media existence in those times. This forum came up around 2001 that I can recall.

    He's also confusing the efficacy/potential transfer of the exercise with the need to make it heavy(yes there is a time an a place for that in a program). There is little doubt it will have greater transfer with more developmental athletes though that does not mean it has no place in the program of more advanced athletes. It sounds like there are no good reasons to squat though he seems wrapped up in the absolute numbers. Too many people push that the absolute numbers have to be achieved to be able to achieve a certain level and it's very likely it's only relative, individual improvements that improve the overall, primary performance up to a point of course-more coaching art than science in this regard. I'd also be interested in seeing how he knows how his Bosch influenced low output exercises are resulting in a positive transfer. He states that no finalist in the Rio 100m could full back squat over 150kg. This might well be true though I don't know how he can guarantee such a thing and even if so the absolute limits they were capable of does not mean there is no value to the exercise. Sounds like the classic baby with the bathwater action.

    I don't believe the attempt to create exercises that, in the minds of the practitioners (IMO), "look like" transitory movements that occur very briefly in the overall actions is an effective method of development. This, in my belief, does nothing but dilute the potential output that could be achieved through very high force/high rate of force exercises in conventional multi joint olympic and oly. derivative exercises as well as standard strength movements. Also, I think too much categorization of people as as puller or pusher or posterior chain or anterior chain dominant does much but influence the coach and athlete to be too specific particularly in the weight room. I'm sure that school of thought would criticize the more general progression as a shotgun approach but it should be general-IMO. Too often, as CF used to mention, people often view athletes of high standard/world class as having all of the general qualities taken care of/already developed and that's simply not the case.

  9. #119
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    re: Squats

    Four years ago I found two videos from Japanese TV that showed the warm-up track in Seoul. I posted one of them. Not a weight in sight there, much less 600lbs. The videos have since been taken down. I knew I should have downloaded those bad boys when I had the chance.

    The Hilton didn’t have them either where Waldemar worked on him the night before the Final. Did Ben go for a workout alone back in the Crazy unsecured OLY Village after being worked on late at night. Not a chance...

    There were other Coaches that were there at the warm-up track who repeated the same thing CF said-there were no dang weights there. Mike Hurst was one of them.

    I haven’t listened to it yet. Did he talk about preparing the foot to strike the ground by tightening? it up - which absorbs energy and not return it nearly as well. Someone told me that he did. There must be a good explanation for it if so.

    Did he cover what the time of the day he has his sprinters do true speed work? I find it very difficult or damn near impossible to hit anything close to my 3-4pm speed SB PB in training in the morning. No way, no how. Unless maybe, I took 400 mg of caffeine before ...but I’m a 50-60mg type of guy and would only go up to 200 mg and for a race.

  10. #120
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    re: Squats

    Four years ago I found two videos from Japanese TV that showed the warm-up track in Seoul. I posted one of them. Not a weight in sight there, much less 600lbs. The videos have since been taken down. I knew I should have downloaded those bad boys when I had the chance.

    The Hilton didn’t have them either where Waldemar worked on him the night before the Final. Did Ben go for a workout alone back in the Crazy unsecured OLY Village after being worked on late at night. Not a chance...

    There were other Coaches that were there at the warm-up track who repeated the same thing CF said-there were no dang weights there. Mike Hurst was one of them.

    I haven’t listened to it yet. Did he talk about preparing the foot to strike the ground by tightening? it up - which absorbs energy and not return it nearly as well. Someone told me that he did. There must be a good explanation for it if so.

    Did he cover what the time of the day he has his sprinters do true speed work? I find it very difficult or damn near impossible to hit anything close to my 3-4pm speed SB PB in training in the morning. No way, no how. Unless maybe, I took 400 mg of caffeine before ...but I’m a 50-60mg type of guy and would only go up to 200 mg and for a race.
    No, unless I missed it I heard nothing about foot strike nor daily training times. I guess I listened to it for the same reason people used to watch MNF-to have Howard Cosell piss them off but really I wanted to see what his most current line of BS would be regarding CF and he did not disappoint to offer up some more of his ignorance on the topic. I guess Charlie also invented Twitter and Facebook (possibly Instagram?).

    I still wonder why people view him as an expert. All they need to do is look at the results of his athletes-the detraining that takes place over time. I think people look to him as some sort of guru because of his 1)affiliation with Dan Pfaff (though he and Pfaff seem to differ a lot on strength training philosophy). Pfaff seems to be much more like Charlie in that regarding taking more of a general weights approach. Dan does not really align himself, with the Frans Bosch specific weight training philosophy. 2)He (SM) is outspoken and we know the squeaky wheel gets the grease. He also did not go into the elite nutritional supplementation advice of consuming "bulletproof coffee"- I had hoped that would be addressed. I had heard a story a few years back from a highly qualified/legitmate source that he had trained some well known bobsledders and due to his recomendations they were very much carb-depleted to the point they could not effectively get through a strength/power oriented training session without a dramatic intra-session drop in quality. Once they started eating enough carbs to support the output they began to perform better in maximal terms as well as keeping the output higher throughout the session.

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