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Thread: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

  1. #101
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by eroszag View Post
    Returning on topic:Altis maybe got a bit too crowded. Not easy to follow so ma y athletes. I love Pfaff methods, but the Way Stu turned them, for the few info we got, maybe is not optimal for many. De Grasse wa amazing during college and immediately after.
    I believe the poor ratio of coach to athlete is an issue there-as you say too crowded. About 4-5 years ago a high level athlete I know stopped by to tour the facilities and that ratio was a major concern for that person. I was asked what I thought about it and added that unless one could get some level of assurance that Pfaff would be a significant part of their program/development I would not suggest a move there.

  2. #102

    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Ok folks I dont wanna beat a dead horse but Stu just publicly bashed Charlie again.. Him & Alan Bishop started a chat on who we all look at when it comes to Sprinters & Strength coaches.. Of course Charlie's name got mentioned.. Alan gave Charlie his props.. Stu rolled his eyes & said "I said athletes, not coaches"...
    An of course a few of my athletes noticed & wanted to comment but chose to ask me whats going on instead

  3. #103
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    Ok folks I dont wanna beat a dead horse but Stu just publicly bashed Charlie again.. Him & Alan Bishop started a chat on who we all look at when it comes to Sprinters & Strength coaches.. Of course Charlie's name got mentioned.. Alan gave Charlie his props.. Stu rolled his eyes & said "I said athletes, not coaches"...
    An of course a few of my athletes noticed & wanted to comment but chose to ask me whats going on instead
    I guess you can blame Charlie for being ranked 5th in the world as a white guy from Canada in the early 1970's in the 100m dash. He should have been better.

    Blame him for creating the Mazda Track club and coaching all those athletes cause he loved it. He developed these athletes from day one and many of them became national, world and Olympic Champions and record holders. Damn that Charlie guy.

    Apparently Charlie was also responsible for wide spread performance enhancing drug use ( also known as PED use) in all sports since the beginning of time but thankfully since his testimony at the Charlie Dubin Inquiry into Drugs and Sport everything has been cleaned up 100 % since 1989. ( what an impressive accomplishment, no wonder Stu was rolling his eyes)

    Perhaps Stu needs to put pen to paper. Write a book. Let us know how you made and are making?... your athletes great.

    Lay it all out for us to see, replicate, discuss. Get your fellow coaches to collaborate and contribute and gather and discuss more.

    Just a few ideas that come to mind Stu.

    And why not pick on the coaches that can have something to say back or is that too competitive for Stu?

    Competition for Charlie is over Stu.

    He already did what he was here to do and it's pretty obvious how that went.

  4. #104
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    I guess you can blame Charlie for being ranked 5th in the world as a white guy from Canada in the early 1970's in the 100m dash. He should have been better.

    Blame him for creating the Mazda Track club and coaching all those athletes cause he loved it. He developed these athletes from day one and many of them became national, world and Olympic Champions and record holders. Damn that Charlie guy.

    Apparently Charlie was also responsible for wide spread performance enhancing drug use ( also known as PED use) in all sports since the beginning of time but thankfully since his testimony at the Charlie Dubin Inquiry into Drugs and Sport everything has been cleaned up 100 % since 1989. ( what an impressive accomplishment, no wonder Stu was rolling his eyes)

    Perhaps Stu needs to put pen to paper. Write a book. Let us know how you made and are making?... your athletes great.

    Lay it all out for us to see, replicate, discuss. Get your fellow coaches to collaborate and contribute and gather and discuss more.

    Just a few ideas that come to mind Stu.

    And why not pick on the coaches that can have something to say back or is that too competitive for Stu?

    Competition for Charlie is over Stu.

    He already did what he was here to do and it's pretty obvious how that went.
    Do you know what changes Charlie would make to an outdoor cold climate program? He mention in Weights for speed 3 he would have more variation with pickup drills, higher focus on jumps, and cleans etc.

  5. #105
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Do you mean what to do when you are training outside in cold weather?

    How cold?

    Are we talking Florida when it gets cold or Toronto when you are trying to train outside as much as possible before snow?

    Or Vancouver? They get a ton of rain and it's cool but not much snow.

  6. #106
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Do you mean what to do when you are training outside in cold weather?

    How cold?

    Are we talking Florida when it gets cold or Toronto when you are trying to train outside as much as possible before snow?

    Or Vancouver? They get a ton of rain and it's cool but not much snow.
    Example 1: Warm climate aka Jamaica
    Example 2: Indoor cold climate (indoor track) aka Toronto
    Example 3: Outdoor cold climate (any place that don't have a indoor track but have cold weather days 30-35 fahrenheit)

    I'll list our avg low's with Dec-Feb being the coldest. Dec 35, Jan 30, Feb 35 is the avg low's. Indoor season I'll have 2 workouts per week - 1 tempo which can be done indoors or outdoors and 1 speed. The speed session will have about 15-20 jumps done indoors, 15-20 throws done outdoors, 3-4x30 sled, 3-4x30 blocks, and 1-2 longer submax runs accel out to 30m and maintain - the distance/type of runs may vary from pickup drills, 60m, or 120-150m all following the 30m intensity limit. Was interested in what Charlie would do in this situation.

  7. #107
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Hey RB35

    Thanks for the question.

    I would be interested in what Charlie thought too but mean time, I will take a shot at your question.

    I’m sure others will have input too and that’s when it becomes more interesting.

    35 degrees F is too cold for high quality speed work……

    Fitness enthusiasts or those wishing to develop an Instagram -able rear end view so to speak. GO FOR IT! Train on ice if you wish.

    The cut off for speed work outdoors is 10 degrees C or 50 degrees F. Or rather, this was the rule we used and I continue exercise as a plan for speed work.

    15 degrees C is more what you might think of for an ideal starting point to repeat high quality speed drills or speed work.

    As an aside, Charlie used to complain excessively about the temperatures at York indoors. It was often cold inside during the winter and it made him CRAZY. He was not so good at hiding how he felt about much.

    It’s been a while since I’ve reviewed Weights for Speed # 3. I’m not sure exactly what Charles had to say regarding your comments.

    If you are training in Jamaica you would be able to take advantage of all things regenerative and recovery based. That’s obvious right? Sand, sun, vitamin D galore, water, ocean water, grass tracks made for sprinting and tracks for sprinters…., The challenge then might be splitting up the training so you could jump start your work early before it gets too hot and then later in the day as it gets a bit cooler, perform speed.

    Without looking at Weights for Speed Series, I’m sure Charles was talking about the pick up drills , jumps and cleans as a means to perform inside NOT OUT?

    It’s difficult to mimic continuous distances on a straightaway for example on an indoor track. Having said that, with regards to variations in pick up drills, the most total distance I had experience with was using the 60m straightaway. Most people doing pick up drills outside of the very top elite would have trouble maintaining EFE or FEF more than 10 to 20 m at a time.

    You are asking a lot of questions that are pretty specific and I don’t have enough context to fully understand what it is that you want to answer. Perhaps others have ideas?

    As some general rules for speed work you want to keep the highest quality work and highest priority work INSIDE if your temperature cut offs are as I’ve discussed above.

    I don’t know what jumps you are doing but I assume it’s explosive med ball jumps and box jumps? It’s tough doing single, double or triple hop throws inside and I would not do them outside if it’s cooler than 10 degrees.

    I have been able to do high quality A’s, B’s and Running A’s as well as med ball chest pass and side and overhead and medicine ball circuit outside as late as December here as long as there was no snow and it was relatively dry and the temperature was NOT seasonal for Toronto Canada.

    I don’t know what throws you are doing outside. I would not do blocks in those temperatures you listed or sled.

    I'm not sure if I've answered your questions. I'm not entirely clear about what you wish to learn or understand.

  8. #108
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Hey RB35

    Thanks for the question.

    I would be interested in what Charlie thought too but mean time, I will take a shot at your question.

    I’m sure others will have input too and that’s when it becomes more interesting.

    35 degrees F is too cold for high quality speed work……

    Fitness enthusiasts or those wishing to develop an Instagram -able rear end view so to speak. GO FOR IT! Train on ice if you wish.

    The cut off for speed work outdoors is 10 degrees C or 50 degrees F. Or rather, this was the rule we used and I continue exercise as a plan for speed work.

    15 degrees C is more what you might think of for an ideal starting point to repeat high quality speed drills or speed work.

    As an aside, Charlie used to complain excessively about the temperatures at York indoors. It was often cold inside during the winter and it made him CRAZY. He was not so good at hiding how he felt about much.

    It’s been a while since I’ve reviewed Weights for Speed # 3. I’m not sure exactly what Charles had to say regarding your comments.

    If you are training in Jamaica you would be able to take advantage of all things regenerative and recovery based. That’s obvious right? Sand, sun, vitamin D galore, water, ocean water, grass tracks made for sprinting and tracks for sprinters…., The challenge then might be splitting up the training so you could jump start your work early before it gets too hot and then later in the day as it gets a bit cooler, perform speed.

    Without looking at Weights for Speed Series, I’m sure Charles was talking about the pick up drills , jumps and cleans as a means to perform inside NOT OUT?

    It’s difficult to mimic continuous distances on a straightaway for example on an indoor track. Having said that, with regards to variations in pick up drills, the most total distance I had experience with was using the 60m straightaway. Most people doing pick up drills outside of the very top elite would have trouble maintaining EFE or FEF more than 10 to 20 m at a time.

    You are asking a lot of questions that are pretty specific and I don’t have enough context to fully understand what it is that you want to answer. Perhaps others have ideas?

    As some general rules for speed work you want to keep the highest quality work and highest priority work INSIDE if your temperature cut offs are as I’ve discussed above.

    I don’t know what jumps you are doing but I assume it’s explosive med ball jumps and box jumps? It’s tough doing single, double or triple hop throws inside and I would not do them outside if it’s cooler than 10 degrees.

    I have been able to do high quality A’s, B’s and Running A’s as well as med ball chest pass and side and overhead and medicine ball circuit outside as late as December here as long as there was no snow and it was relatively dry and the temperature was NOT seasonal for Toronto Canada.

    I don’t know what throws you are doing outside. I would not do blocks in those temperatures you listed or sled.

    I'm not sure if I've answered your questions. I'm not entirely clear about what you wish to learn or understand.
    You are correct - it's too cold for quality speed but keeping the runs short over 30m or using a 30m intensity limit will make the runs safer vs doing full out 60m runs which would be dumb.

    Well, I know Ashley Mort visited Charlie and they filmed the block start dvd. I spoke with Ashley several times back then because he had a ton of success with his college sprinters while training in a cold weather climate without an indoor track. If I remember correctly his training recommendations came from Charlie. Weights, various jumps (box jumps etc), mb throws, and short sprints over 30. It probably wasn't speed work but it was better then doing nothing.

    I think hills and sleds are fine for cold weather because the speeds of the runs are already slower which make them a little more safer.

  9. #109

    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    I have watched the weights for speed video recently. I believe Charlie was referring to using cleans if you had limited space indoors for sprinting, along with vertical jumps etc. As we know he believed there was a CNS conflict if including cleans and top speed work e.g 60m in the same programme running alongside each other. However if confined to a smaller indoor space, 30m sprints combined with cleans etc could go some way towards fulfilling the need to tax the CNS. If I'm talking rubbish I'm happy to be corrected.

  10. #110
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    Re: Master Coach Charlie Francis Oly / What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilG View Post
    I have watched the weights for speed video recently. I believe Charlie was referring to using cleans if you had limited space indoors for sprinting, along with vertical jumps etc. As we know he believed there was a CNS conflict if including cleans and top speed work e.g 60m in the same programme running alongside each other. However if confined to a smaller indoor space, 30m sprints combined with cleans etc could go some way towards fulfilling the need to tax the CNS. If I'm talking rubbish I'm happy to be corrected.
    We are talking about cold weather outdoors. Weights speed 3 - starting at 7min mark.

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