Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Do you need SE for speed development

  1. #1

    Do you need SE for speed development

    Hi there!

    Does anyone have any insights or experience regarding the question as to whether SE work is required to develop maxV? I'm currently only interested in LJ and 60m, so don't really need SE for my events. However, I'm wondering whether some SE work is required to maximise my maxV.

    I'm pondering this question because doing SE on the track is similar to going to failure with weights. If you never go to or near failure with weights you probably don't develop your full strength potential. Likewise, if you never go to a distance where you cannot maintain top speed anymore, will this prevent your body from receiving the required stimulus to maximise your speed potential?

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts and contributions,
    Robin.

  2. #2
    Member RB34's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,859

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    I disagree with going to failure to develop your full strength potential. I would extend your training distances out to 90-120 and maybe even some 150's. I really like doing 150's because I feel they are the prefect training distance and give me a little bit of everything. For example -

    Spp

    Mon Accel - jump circuits - wts

    Tue Short approach jumps - circuits

    Wed Full approach jumps - bounding - wts

    Thur Med ball or REST

    Fri Speed 90-150's OR 90-150's FEF etc- depth jumps - wts

    Sat Tempo

    For the horz jumper I would recommend three different phases.

    Accel phase:
    Day 1: accel runs 10-30m
    Day 2: contrast accel runs

    Speed phase:
    Day 1: accel runs 10-40m
    Day 2: Speed 50-60, fef, flys

    Speed end:
    Day 1: accel runs
    Day 2: Speed end 80-150, fef etc

  3. #3

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    Think of it from another view.

    To improve your 60/jumps you need to really be at competition pace/effort/technical regularly, to be able to do it at that frequency you need to have the capacity to do so.

    Repetition of your top end, itself is SE you don't need to necessarily increase your rep distance to hit the training factors you require, simply adjust recovery vs repetitions


    So in short my answer is, yes. Some SE that allows you the ability to "repeat" will aid your MaxV development. And of course depending on where you personally hit your MV can help you hold it until the end of the 60! remember only top elites will be hitting MV towards the end of the 60 the rest of us are there earlier

    But on a personal note I agree with RB, upping the distance wont hurt and can aid some smoothing out of technique also

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    473

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    Quote Originally Posted by robin1 View Post
    Hi there!

    Does anyone have any insights or experience regarding the question as to whether SE work is required to develop maxV? I'm currently only interested in LJ and 60m, so don't really need SE for my events. However, I'm wondering whether some SE work is required to maximise my maxV.

    I'm pondering this question because doing SE on the track is similar to going to failure with weights. If you never go to or near failure with weights you probably don't develop your full strength potential. Likewise, if you never go to a distance where you cannot maintain top speed anymore, will this prevent your body from receiving the required stimulus to maximise your speed potential?

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts and contributions,
    Robin.
    I would have similar approach to CF and separate days with higher intensites with SE runs just like Irving Boo Schexnayder is doing in his program.
    On Wednesday he's performing eight full long jump run-ups followed by two reps between 90-150m.

    Re: strength, I wouldn't worry about it too much as the strength is a secondary means to what's happening on the track and if is going up steadily and progressively, you are doing a good job.

  5. #5

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    Thanks for your comments. I think I will work up to including a couple of 120s in my training once a week.

    With regards to strength training, I’m not saying that I want to max out in the gym when my training goal is to improve my speed and long jump. I was just observing that you probably can’t reach your full strength potential if you never push yourself in weight training and asking whether this also applies to speed training. If you take 30 strides to complete a 60m run, for example, you have basically done a set of 15 reps on each leg. However, if we say that you can run up to 50 strides before your ability to exert force deteriorates significantly, you could say that running 60m is comparable to doing your 10 rep squat or bench max for only 6 reps, which may not be sufficient to reach your full squat or bench potential.

  6. #6

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    Also, quite a few of the very best horizontal jumpers have run world class 200m (Carl Lewis, Mike Conley, Larry Myricks) or even 400m times (Christian Taylor).

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    473

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    Quote Originally Posted by robin1 View Post
    Also, quite a few of the very best horizontal jumpers have run world class 200m (Carl Lewis, Mike Conley, Larry Myricks) or even 400m times (Christian Taylor).
    I talked to Jeremy Fischer who said that he has never run anything longer than 80m.

  8. #8

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    Interesting. Will Claye’s 200m indoor PB is 21.77, which would probably be a low 21 outdoors, but he has only run 200m a couple of times. He’s run the 100m regularly and his PB here is 10.64, which corresponds well to a low 21s 200m and, therefore, doesn’t suggest an SE deficit. Maybe they do split runs for SE without going over 80m?

  9. #9
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,561

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    Rules are made to be broken and followed. Both are true but you might not want to ignore patterns of success.

    I am not sure you can successfully compare the 60m with a 10 rep squat.

    We already know you need to prioritize speed training over lifting. Lifting heavy squats does not ensure running successfully in the 60m or the 100m. Lifting heavy squats might ensure lifting heavy squats more often and with heavier weights if and when you approach it with method.

    We already know for sure that sprinting is unique.

    We also know practice makes permanent.

    We need to run fast to be fast.

    We need to lift heavy things to get stronger.

    A body builder lifts a certain way. If a sprinter lifted exactly as a body builder does it might interfere with his or her ability to perform high quality sprinting.

  10. #10

    Re: Do you need SE for speed development

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Rules are made to be broken and followed. Both are true but you might not want to ignore patterns of success.

    I am not sure you can successfully compare the 60m with a 10 rep squat.

    We already know you need to prioritize speed training over lifting. Lifting heavy squats does not ensure running successfully in the 60m or the 100m. Lifting heavy squats might ensure lifting heavy squats more often and with heavier weights if and when you approach it with method.

    We already know for sure that sprinting is unique.

    We also know practice makes permanent.

    We need to run fast to be fast.

    We need to lift heavy things to get stronger.

    A body builder lifts a certain way. If a sprinter lifted exactly as a body builder does it might interfere with his or her ability to perform high quality sprinting.
    My take on this: A mapping of training methods to relative levels of benefits.

    Level 1 Training : Essential for all sprinters. Very high correlation between these methods and sprinting success. At absolute (elite level) and relative (age grouping etc).
    Starts
    Accelerations
    Max V
    SE

    Level 2 Training. High correlation to sprinting success. But not used by all successful sprinters.
    Hills
    Bounding, jumping, plyo type movements

    Level 3 Training. Correlation to sprinting success. Some sprinters are successful without doing any/much of this.
    Weights
    Tempo
    Circuits, bike, swim etc.

    Note that level 3 may become more valid for longer sprinters.
    May not be optimum for health or body composition.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •