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Thread: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

  1. #101

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    I truly believe - once you begin to start training like a 50yr old athlete will be the day you start looking/performing like a 50yr old athlete. If you are 30-35 even 40 their shouldn't be major changes to your program esp if you been training non stop since your 20's.
    While I am not a fan of a bunch of work in the middle, I do agree with this statement. I've been hearing my peers say, "We're getting old," since around 28-years old. Everyone who has said that has gotten slower each season. If it were not for a pretty severe injury hampering my training, I would have done the exact same stuff the last few years. The main changes to training are to account for additional stresses in life--higher demands at work, fatherhood, etc. Other than backing off a bit due to those, all else should remain the same.

    The hardest thing for me in the last couple years has been remaining as consistent as I need to be. This has largely been due to the other demands taking precedence at times. The key is then not to bite off more than you can chew. If you know that other important things will come up, don't expect to do 10 things every week. Rather, plan to do 8. But then don't budge from those. Make sure you get them in. Create that consistency.

    In an effort to keep things simple and consistent, my weekly rules are as follows:
    Sprint 2x per week
    Deadlift 2x per week (usually on sprint days)
    Aerobic Conditioning 2x per week (usually 1 day extensive tempo and 1 day jump rope / medball)

    These are the rules. Period. The optimal week will have 4 training days and 3 rest days (2 high, 2 low). In cases where I can't hit the weights on a sprint day, I will get the deadlift in on a third HI day. This is a very manageable program, while still balanced across the main elements. Plyometrics (and other lifts) will be a part of speed days and could also make up a third HI day in the week if it feels appropriately. But I can't add a third HI day before I ensure 2 tempo days will be completed.

  2. #102
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    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by Actuary400m View Post
    While I am not a fan of a bunch of work in the middle, I do agree with this statement. I've been hearing my peers say, "We're getting old," since around 28-years old. Everyone who has said that has gotten slower each season. If it were not for a pretty severe injury hampering my training, I would have done the exact same stuff the last few years. The main changes to training are to account for additional stresses in life--higher demands at work, fatherhood, etc. Other than backing off a bit due to those, all else should remain the same.

    The hardest thing for me in the last couple years has been remaining as consistent as I need to be. This has largely been due to the other demands taking precedence at times. The key is then not to bite off more than you can chew. If you know that other important things will come up, don't expect to do 10 things every week. Rather, plan to do 8. But then don't budge from those. Make sure you get them in. Create that consistency.

    In an effort to keep things simple and consistent, my weekly rules are as follows:
    Sprint 2x per week
    Deadlift 2x per week (usually on sprint days)
    Aerobic Conditioning 2x per week (usually 1 day extensive tempo and 1 day jump rope / medball)

    These are the rules. Period. The optimal week will have 4 training days and 3 rest days (2 high, 2 low). In cases where I can't hit the weights on a sprint day, I will get the deadlift in on a third HI day. This is a very manageable program, while still balanced across the main elements. Plyometrics (and other lifts) will be a part of speed days and could also make up a third HI day in the week if it feels appropriately. But I can't add a third HI day before I ensure 2 tempo days will be completed.
    Work in the middle can be misleading... You have the typical D3 middle work ex: 5x200 24-26s r 2-3mins, my middle work would be similar to Bill Collins where those same 200's would be 4-8mins of rest. This type of work allows you to get more reps practicing your skill and can be useful for athletes of our ability. Instead of always doing 2x150 resting 15-20mins ill do 6x150 resting 6-8mins still fast but getting more volume.

    Do your wife support what you do?

  3. #103

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Collins does have a speed session of 80m reducing down to 50, 30, 20 from week 20 to 50 each week.
    His `endurance work` looks like 800m runner reps rather than extensive tempo (ie harder) and will provide solid fitness.
    Although the volume looks scary he is actually only running 3x per week and alternates running and weights days. I hope he does some of the long reps on grass rather than track to protect the legs.
    But I can see how it could work for some people.

    I dont like the other one though:
    The `old white guys` are running 5 days per week most on the track I guess. Plus the rest of their training. That`s a lot of foot contact. Programme looks excessively complicated and I cant see an obvious pattern of LS or SL.

  4. #104

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    This is a great thread. I just started doing some sprinting again with my son. I'm not talented and I've been doing boxing training the last two years. After a month of sprinting I have my volumes up close to what I've done in the past but I'm not doing any tempo running, instead I'm doing my boxing training on lo days in the form of shadowboxing and technical drills followed by lots of calisthenics and medball or LSU style low int weight circuits. Basically a very high volume of low intensity work on lo days. I pretty much just try to get in high volumes for an hour straight at mostly a continuous pace.

    I can tell that my aerobic capacity is better than it has been when I was doing ext tempo and my joints are thanking me. I "feel" faster when sprinting lately, which probably means I'm actually slower though.

    Takeaway is:

    I think low intensity/tempo days can include pretty much whatever you want as long as the volume is high and you are working the low end/cardiac output component. In fact there is probably benefit in not doing a running workout, even if low intensity since there is the very real negative of repetitive stress. I always had problems from hi int sprinting and lo int tempo from a pounding and repetitive stress perspective. I had the same issue with boxing in that even though a technical day may be lo int, you are still moving and punching from the same plane you are on high days.

    I had tons of mid back, hip and knee issues all on the rear side. I'm orthodox. It really creates an imbalance and I rarely have seen many trainers address that. Now that I'm sprinting and doing more general work that has started to work it self out. No more lateral knee, hip or mid trap/back pain on the right side.

    At the elite level of both sports, the athletes train 6 days per week specific to their sport each day it seems. Maybe they have to due to the high level of skill but the repetitive stress gets real at the 30+ age.

  5. #105
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    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by lr1400 View Post
    This is a great thread. I just started doing some sprinting again with my son. I'm not talented and I've been doing boxing training the last two years. After a month of sprinting I have my volumes up close to what I've done in the past but I'm not doing any tempo running, instead I'm doing my boxing training on lo days in the form of shadowboxing and technical drills followed by lots of calisthenics and medball or LSU style low int weight circuits. Basically a very high volume of low intensity work on lo days. I pretty much just try to get in high volumes for an hour straight at mostly a continuous pace.

    I can tell that my aerobic capacity is better than it has been when I was doing ext tempo and my joints are thanking me. I "feel" faster when sprinting lately, which probably means I'm actually slower though.

    Takeaway is:

    I think low intensity/tempo days can include pretty much whatever you want as long as the volume is high and you are working the low end/cardiac output component. In fact there is probably benefit in not doing a running workout, even if low intensity since there is the very real negative of repetitive stress. I always had problems from hi int sprinting and lo int tempo from a pounding and repetitive stress perspective. I had the same issue with boxing in that even though a technical day may be lo int, you are still moving and punching from the same plane you are on high days.

    I had tons of mid back, hip and knee issues all on the rear side. I'm orthodox. It really creates an imbalance and I rarely have seen many trainers address that. Now that I'm sprinting and doing more general work that has started to work it self out. No more lateral knee, hip or mid trap/back pain on the right side.

    At the elite level of both sports, the athletes train 6 days per week specific to their sport each day it seems. Maybe they have to due to the high level of skill but the repetitive stress gets real at the 30+ age.
    How much speed work are you doing? I haven't done much for fitness in this block because my feet are usually beat up after the speed sessions. I still see value in tempo runs but at this point in my career the speed work is the most important, it will also develop any specific fitness I need. Not changing much at this time esp with my times improving each week. Unless you are fat or extremely unfit we could argue against the use of tempo runs for most older non-elite sprinters. Warming up and upper body are my low intensity days, upper body work is therapeutic for me. I'll add in some basic cardiac work next block and as my body adapts to the training I'll add in tempo runs.

    Below is what Joel recommended on his recovery days in a typical strength block.

    10-15mins Cardiac output

    10-15mins Lower body concentric only (sled, hict, mb)

    5-10mins Upper body concentric only (sled, hict, mb)

    What I'll probably do next block:

    15-20 cardiac work on elliptical
    Static/Dym stretching
    Rowing tempo: 3x(60/90)
    Upper body wts
    Abs

  6. #106

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    How much speed work are you doing? I haven't done much for fitness in this block because my feet are usually beat up after the speed sessions. I still see value in tempo runs but at this point in my career the speed work is the most important, it will also develop any specific fitness I need. Not changing much at this time esp with my times improving each week. Unless you are fat or extremely unfit we could argue against the use of tempo runs for most older non-elite sprinters. Warming up and upper body are my low intensity days, upper body work is therapeutic for me. I'll add in some basic cardiac work next block and as my body adapts to the training I'll add in tempo runs.

    Below is what Joel recommended on his recovery days in a typical strength block.

    10-15mins Cardiac output

    10-15mins Lower body concentric only (sled, hict, mb)

    5-10mins Upper body concentric only (sled, hict, mb)

    What I'll probably do next block:

    15-20 cardiac work on elliptical
    Static/Dym stretching
    Rowing tempo: 3x(60/90)
    Upper body wts
    Abs
    I'm around 250y total volume and will probably take it to 300y. This is just 10-60y runs.


    Is that Joel's recommendation from the 8 weeks out book?

    He usually recommends a lot more for volume for fighters. That's mainly where I got the "do continuous work" for around an hour. Sometimes I break it up with continuous for 45 min and then end with 15 min of tempo type or HICT work.

    I do one day of cardiac power or anaerobic threshold one day per week that is usually boxing specific so I can at least keep the ability to spar a few rounds when I want to.

  7. #107
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    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by lr1400 View Post
    I'm around 250y total volume and will probably take it to 300y. This is just 10-60y runs.


    Is that Joel's recommendation from the 8 weeks out book?

    He usually recommends a lot more for volume for fighters. That's mainly where I got the "do continuous work" for around an hour. Sometimes I break it up with continuous for 45 min and then end with 15 min of tempo type or HICT work.

    I do one day of cardiac power or anaerobic threshold one day per week that is usually boxing specific so I can at least keep the ability to spar a few rounds when I want to.
    http://www.bioforcehrv.com/wp-conten...h-Template.pdf

  8. #108
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    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+



    Everybody train so different.

  9. #109

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post


    Everybody train so different.
    Crazy.

    I couldnít do the Collins method I donít believe, mainly I really like short to moderate distance sprints.

    I get similar feeling as I do sparring and I donít get that from weights or medball. Itís fun and must release dopamine and adrenaline like sparring.

    That guy above must be getting some type of benefit like special endurance like you see some people run long hills.

  10. #110

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Did 300 total volume today. Smoked. Shouldíve skipped the last run.

    I like that low int day from Joel:

    I do a cardiac power day once per week and did sled pushes for 60s and then fininshed with hict with the sled. One hard push, rest 3 sec, repeat then a hard pull, rest, repeat.

    Iím going to do something like that tomorrow.

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