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Thread: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

  1. #91

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    I have no doubt if I did this program I would get faster (put in the hours and be consistent). No matter what program I do I would get results. Would it be a fun program to do - NO - would the reps look ugly - Yes. I do like he's taking a good amount of rest btw reps. I wouldn't be surprise if Chris got some good results from this type of program.
    What makes you so certain you would get faster on this program when there is so little speed work at 95-100% intensity, and such high volumes of mid to low intensity running, even right up to 4 days befor peaking.
    I feel most masters athletes would not be able to take the large volume of running as wear and tear on muscles, ligaments and joints would be so great.

  2. #92

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldbloke View Post
    Yes this is the interview I used as a summary in my earlier post.

    I always remind myself of Michael Johnson`s quote - `I never cared if people new how I trained, because what worked for me may not work for them.`

    There are many athletes that run fast with 2-3 sessions per week of race pace work. And nothing else. And not just at sprints but longer distances as well.
    I think the question is do they just represent a higher proportion of highly gifted athletes who are able to thrive on doing just the components that are of most specific in nature. Probably are.

    How much benefit do any masters athletes get from non specific work - tempo/endurance, weights, plyos in addition to the specific stuff. Is your speed work giving you 90% of your genetic potential, 80% ...... ?
    its hard to see how you would ever get a decent study of this since you would need to get a runner to do 3xspeed per week for say 1 year. Then say 3xspeed per week + 1xtempo and 1xwts (or whatever).

    Its is a particularly pertinant question for masters since their tendancy towards injury makes high volume of anything more risky.
    Also, masters have high demands on their personal time limiting training sessions. Steve Peters is an extreme example - maths degree > maths teacher > medicine degree > doctor > phychiatric speciality as consultant > world renowned sports performance mental coach > author.
    The is also an example of a 70 yo 800m runner( Gary Patton) world record holder, who only runs 2 x week. He says as soon a she cut out the garbage miles he stopped getting injured. He does a lot of weights and cross training in between his running day. Google his training if interested. This sort of confirms my belief that as we age we need less of the ancillary work and just the meat and potatoes.

  3. #93
    Member Chris6878's Avatar
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    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by grooster View Post
    The is also an example of a 70 yo 800m runner( Gary Patton) world record holder, who only runs 2 x week. He says as soon a she cut out the garbage miles he stopped getting injured. He does a lot of weights and cross training in between his running day. Google his training if interested. This sort of confirms my belief that as we age we need less of the ancillary work and just the meat and potatoes.
    I agree, Since going to 2 hi 3-4 lo my body feels fantastic. I actually feel good every speed session. Last few years when I did 3 speed days with speed volumes up to 500-600meters worth of work.....I tore a calf muscle 2 of the years and the other I got plantar F. I was also skipping rope 3-4 times a week. Dropped all that extra stuff and I feel better.

  4. #94

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by grooster View Post
    This is taken from Bill Collins book " The Ageless Athletic Spirit"
    He gives a 52 week program
    Week 1
    Mon 3 mile run
    Tues weights
    Wed 8 x 400 with 2 mins rest
    Thurs weights
    Fri 3 mile run
    Sat and Sun rest

    Week 10
    Mon 6 x 800m with 6 mins rec
    Tues weights
    Wed 25 x 60 m of hills or stadium stairs
    Thurs weights
    Fri rest

    Week 20
    Mon 450,350,250,350 .8 mims rest between reps
    Tues weights
    Wed 6 x 220m with 6 mins rec
    Thurs weights
    Fri 6 x 80m with full rec
    Sat and Sun rest

    Week 30
    Mon 4 x 400m with 8 mims rest between reps
    Tues weights
    Wed 6 x 80m with full rec
    Thurs weights
    Fri 4 x 450m with 10 mins rec
    Sat and Sun

    Week 40
    Mon 450, 350, 250m with 8 mims rest between reps
    Tues weights
    Wed 3 x 300mwith full rec
    Thurs weights
    Fri 4 x 20m, 4 x 30m from blocks, This is the first block session of the year
    Sat and Sun

    Week 50
    Mon 3 x 50m, 2 x100m, 2 x 150m rest as required between reps
    Tues weights
    Wed 2 x 300mwith 8 mins rec
    Thurs weights
    Fri 3 x400m, negative splitting each 200m, 10 mins rec
    Sat and Sun Rest

    Week 52
    Mon 3 x 350m rest as required between reps
    Tues weights
    Wed 4 x 200mwith 6 mins rec
    Thurs weights
    Fri, Sat Sun Rest

    This is obviously a classic long to short program, but this doesn't seem to make much sense to me. with very little speed work and a large volume of work during the peaking weeks. You can't doubt the success though as Bill Collins is a masters superstar.
    surely this is not 100/200 runners ?

  5. #95
    Member RB34's Avatar
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    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharmer View Post
    surely this is not 100/200 runners ?
    That shouldn't matter much. Most sprinters won't reach their peaks until they can run a good 200. I ran my best 100 in the summer that I ran my best 200 - Roman and starr use to push me to run the 200 every single week.

  6. #96

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharmer View Post
    surely this is not 100/200 runners ?
    Yeah , this is the training for a 100m-200m runner. Bill Collins holdS numerous age group world records for the 100-200m. He doesn't run the 400m. It's hard to believe one could run so fast off such a program.

  7. #97
    Member RB34's Avatar
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    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by grooster View Post
    Yeah , this is the training for a 100m-200m runner. Bill Collins holdS numerous age group world records for the 100-200m. He doesn't run the 400m. It's hard to believe one could run so fast off such a program.
    You should be more open minded. I'll say it again I'm not surprise with the results at all. Only one way to make yourself a believer - is to try the program for yourself. Let's not forget the big "G" word - Genetics!!!!

  8. #98

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    You should be more open minded. I'll say it again I'm not surprise with the results at all. Only one way to make yourself a believer - is to try the program for yourself. Let's not forget the big "G" word - Genetics!!!!
    Yes I agree ..genetics plays a massive part, however, after reading many of Charlies manuals, Collins style of training is the exact opposite with nearly all the work in the mid range of 75%-90%.
    Collins has had success with many runners not just himself, so this style of program obviously works. i just struggle to see how???
    As I asked before, what makes you so certain you would succeed on such a program. I could only see injury for myself.

  9. #99
    Member RB34's Avatar
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    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by grooster View Post
    Yes I agree ..genetics plays a massive part, however, after reading many of Charlies manuals, Collins style of training is the exact opposite with nearly all the work in the mid range of 75%-90%.
    Collins has had success with many runners not just himself, so this style of program obviously works. i just struggle to see how???
    As I asked before, what makes you so certain you would succeed on such a program. I could only see injury for myself.
    I would get faster for several reasons:

    1: Not great but decent genetics.
    2: Once I decide to do a certain program - I'm all in and believe its going to work. You gotta believe you are doing the best training program.
    3: Consistency with my training.

    If you have Belief and Consistency almost any training program will work!!!

    Not to discredit any of Charlie work because I totally agree with everything Charlie has taught us about training. I'm sure Jesse Owens and Bob Hayes did their fair share of 75-90% work. More then one way to skin a cat.

    90% work is great because it allows you to do more reps + higher frequency of work + more opportunities to practice your skill = faster results!!

    I truly believe - once you begin to start training like a 50yr old athlete will be the day you start looking/performing like a 50yr old athlete. If you are 30-35 even 40 their shouldn't be major changes to your program esp if you been training non stop since your 20's.

  10. #100

    Re: Training The Master Sprinter 35+

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    I would get faster for several reasons:

    1: Not great but decent genetics.
    2: Once I decide to do a certain program - I'm all in and believe its going to work. You gotta believe you are doing the best training program.
    3: Consistency with my training.

    If you have Belief and Consistency almost any training program will work!!!

    Not to discredit any of Charlie work because I totally agree with everything Charlie has taught us about training. I'm sure Jesse Owens and Bob Hayes did their fair share of 75-90% work. More then one way to skin a cat.

    90% work is great because it allows you to do more reps + higher frequency of work + more opportunities to practice your skill = faster results!!

    I truly believe - once you begin to start training like a 50yr old athlete will be the day you start looking/performing like a 50yr old athlete. If you are 30-35 even 40 their shouldn't be major changes to your program esp if you been training non stop since your 20's.
    I wonder if a program like Collins wouldn't be best for the lower talented people. Many say the reason Collins and others excel on these programs is because they have lots of natural speed.

    I understand that you supposedly aren't really hitting speed and power as much on these type programs but for those with poor genetics, speed is the limiting factor and it's marginally improvable. The Collins programs hit the fitness and endurance side harder. I could see throwing in more starts earlier to work the power end. And with the 50's, 80's, 100's, 150's you are training MaxV as well. So you still hit all of the key aspects for a fast 100 at your own potential.

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