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Thread: Coach Ange's blog

  1. #51
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    Good evening Angela, Happy new years and seasons greetings from The Caribbean. I have been an avid follower of Mr.Francis for a number of years. I have watched numerous interviews, read Speed trap, running risks, training for speed, nearly all of the dublin inquiry and much more that pertained to Charlie Francis and his group. I am not at all phased by the fact that performance enhancing drugs were used in his training regimen and fully understand that it has been a crucial component of athletics for many decades. <br>
    <br>
    I hail from a small island in the caribbean. I have a personal best of 10.7 seconds in the 100 meter dash in 2009. I was sidelined with a serious knee injury the very next year before i went to college and went away from the sport for a number of years. i was never properly coached and never introduced serious weight training into my regimen. I have now been training on my own since Nov and looking to make a serious comeback for my country and hopefully make the olympic team in 2024 in Paris. <br>
    <br>
    Here is a question for you, is there a correlation between training age and peak age, (the amount of years and athlete has been training consistently until the gains are slowed significantly. I understand that there are sprinters that have started in their 20's , but a sprinter that has re-started their sprint journey in their 30's, and rose to prominence is much more rare i believe. Perhaps there is some science behind CNS activity, reaction time peak age, muscle degeneration etc etc. <br>
    <br>
    Nonetheless, I am committed to breaking through some barriers. Its a pleasure to speak to you Mrs.Coon.

  2. #52
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    What a lovely note from you. Thank you for sharing this with us.

    And it is coming from a place Charlie loved, the Caribbean. I have yet to visit.

    Your question = is there a correlation between training age and peak age, (the amount of years and athlete has been training consistently until the gains are slowed significantly)

    Economics has played a key role in ones abilities to see through their potential. Don't forget that fact.

    Charlie hung up with spikes WAY too early but had he had himself as a coach, would that have happened?

    I did not train seriously until more than a few years past 1988 yet I had a very strong athletic training development base. Gymnastics, track and I was an excellent swimmer. And I was not burned out and I did not have serious injuries. I was not ranked 5th in the world like Charlie but Charlie for sure could have re-started his career and ran well into his 30's. I went from doing well on a national junior level
    to improving my speed and running consistently in order to compete internationally. When I finished running in 1997 Merlene Ottey was one of few superstars past what most thought of as a prime age.

    Information in 2022 is vast compared to info prior to now. The rate of new info getting to a larger # of people is also higher.

    If you believe doctors like Dr David Sinclair and Dr Terry Wahls and Dr Dale Bredesen, disease and aging can be slowed AND reversed. This believe now supported by respected scientists means with the right choices we can train more effectively, longer with better and more consistent results.
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:41 PM.

  3. #53
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    Science in sport has not been the same as science for popular consumption. I do not mean to be negative but it's not possible that a switch off drugs happened in 1988 yet who is talking about this? Joe Rogan has done an amazing interview with Victor Conte but he runs his own show. We see a token elite swimmer talking about his truth and a household name in the cycling world talk truth but do we really believe they are the only ones with stories in elite sport?

    Would we be able to have an open conversation about what athletes are facing now? Not yet.

    I do not see the line up of anyone wanting to share with us all what's up in the trenches of elite sport.

    Meantime athletes are on their own ( still) or relying on coaches, each other, smart and empowered parents maybe and that is about it.

    Is the IOC or OLY federal committees concerned about how long you can thrive in track? My guess is not so much.

    I was recently accused by a friend via whats app that I need to move on and I am a want to be. I do want to be and I will always move forward with or without the past. I want to be myself and I want to honor my late best friend and his life's work and I want to know it was not for no reason. Our "friends" disappeared in 1988 and our "supporters" also disappeared so maybe I have something I would like to share and continue? Don't I get to choose?

    Standing room only at Charlie's funeral.....

    ..... That does not make him perfect or right by the way but he was many things and he was a huge supporter of track globally and in Canada and shame on a bunch of people who turned their backs on me and us.
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:06 PM.

  4. #54
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    I would invite myself to your country or to mine and take a look free of charge and we can go from there full stop. Obviously it's not that easy but it could be a first step.

    My door is not as open as it once was to help anyone except those I love and trust and those I respect. I once believed sharing all to everyone was a good thing. I see how that has worked for me post 2010. I see how that has worked for my business and work post 2010.

    My thoughts and advice to you?

    Let no one stand in your way to make a shot at any dream you have and if you have the means to support yourself via your money or someone who sponsors you, make a list and prioritize your list and chip away at your goals.

    You need to be realistic and put yourself in a spot to thrive.
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:17 PM.

  5. #55
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    Maybe others might pipe in and speak and share and contribute to your questions.

    I can't run this site alone nor will I try. It was set up a certain way and up to now I have not had the time, energy or focus to figure it out. Seems unbelievable that is true but it is.

    Otherwise contact me directly and continued success and Happy New Year.

  6. #56
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    Ange, I've said it before and I'll say it again. We all are so fortunate to have you hosting this site and honoring your husband's legacy. The information here is invaluable. Reading the books is awesome, but it's so cool to re-read them and then come on here and see Charlie discuss and APPLY his teachings in a practical and realistic way through his conversations on these forums. It goes to show it's not all about what Charlie thought, but it's HOW he thought that made a difference. I recently was reading a thread where he was discussing with other members about Michael Johnson and his training, and it's all about using common sense. There is no doubt that Charlie and Clyde Hart had different training systems, so it was really interesting to see Charlie talk about how he really wouldn't have changed much about his training at all. A lot of top-level coaches (I could give examples of these training groups but I don't think I need to mention names lol) will say "oh if this guy did things our way he'd be running X time", but that's purely from a dogmatic ego and just to promote their business scheme. Charlie never fixed something that wasn't broken. That brings to mind the example of how he was criticized for not "fixing" Angella's overstriding early on in her career. He patiently let her grow into it, and she obviously ended up benefiting greatly from it. Same thing with Ben's start. I am sure there are plenty of coaches today who say "imagine how much faster Ben would have been using the toe drag and doing wickets!". Charlie's wisdom goes well beyond analytics and it is why he had the results he had. He didn't just take 10 flat guys and improve them by a tenth or two. He started by developing kids who had nothing and helped build them into world champions. Today, we have too many "gurus".

    @YoungCj1 to answer your question, simply put, I do not believe there really is an established correlation. First off, I must say that by asking that question that already tells me you are motivated and inspired, because most people think they are done at 30. Heck, I have seen 22 year old college seniors who think they are topped out when I know for sure they could reach another tier if they put in the time to continue to train into their 30s.

    I think that part of the stigma is that people often watch mainstream sports and see athletes retire around 30 in a lot of the explosive sports. But these are PROFESSIONAL and ELITE athletes who: 1. are performing at such a high level that it can potentially cause more serious injuries, as well as forcing themselves to play through injuries in big money sports like the NFL/NBA etc. 2. they already have enough money made by that point and are mentally burnt out. My point is that these situations do not apply to someone who is still DEVELOPING, and also that there are outliers. So it's not a fair comparison. Giving up when we are in our 20's is an issue of how our society is structured. If I may be so bold, amateurism and the NCAA are a huge barrier to why people give up on sports (and life) so soon. I have been reading a bit on sprinters from the 19th and early 20th century when "professionalism" was the common practice, before amateurism was established. It was not uncommon to see professional sprinters compete well into their 30s or 40s back then.

    What I can say though is that we have seen many sprinters with long careers and performing well into later years. Su Bingtian just ran the fastest 30 and 60 meter splits ever, and he is 32. Kim Collins ran a PB of under 10 sec shortly before turning 40. There's also the case of Gatlin, who ran several PB's in his mid-to-late 30s and became world champion - this was also after a long hiatus - which you could speculate might have been beneficial for his longevity since he was not over-racing or over-training during those years. On the female side, the case of SAFP comes to mind, and she's 35 now and still on top of her game. There really are plenty of examples. One of the key things is to train smart at conservative volumes which will help you stay healthy, which is what enables you to continue to make progress.

    Another consideration is that as you get older, I think that some of the training emphasis needs to shift back to some of what is emphasized for beginners. As you get older, it is important to maintain general fitness, flexibility, and strength levels, and etc. Of course, these things are always in every good program, but sometimes advanced athletes (in the middle of a career) get to a point where they need a bit more specific work compared to general work because the high performance levels must prioritize those things. It is easy to get lost in the shuffle of emphasizing specific speed work too much and to begin neglecting the fundamentals, because at one's middle/peak years the general qualities are largely taken care of by the high performance levels of the specific task (if you are sprinting very fast, you are already applying massive force, already have flexibility to reach such great positions, and obviously are fit if you are running 10 flat for example, or whatever your PB may be. So the weights/flexibility/etc often take care of themselves to the point where you don't need to emphasize those training components as much as a beginner). Naturally as we age it is merely part of the process that we begin to lose some of these general qualities, and so they become more valuable again as you get later into your career. You could have great biomechanical patterning from years of being fast, but that all means nothing if not in the presence of adequate fitness, strength, flexibility, etc.

    Bottom line is that everyone's peak years will vary depending on multiple factors, so control the things you can and don't worry about the things you cannot control.
    Last edited by Brett; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:47 PM.

  7. #57
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    Hey Ange, and thank you for your response.

    Yes this is certainly the age of technology and information. Virtually anything you want to research, is readily available online. Certainly there is an advantage for athletes in todays time as opposed to yesteryear. With that said, my search has been a bit scattered but I seem to be making ground on different strategies that speak about sports performance in sprinters.

    I wish i had the pleasure of meeting Charlie, I am still bewildered by how intuitive and wise he was just from his books and interviews. A man with little words but those words were impactful. I am honored to speak to you.

    Like Charlie and his athletes in Canada in 1988, there is VERY little support from my government, so i have been self funding my training as well, thankfully I own my own company and do fairly well for myself. Hopefully once Im well established I can make a trip to Canada again once Trudeau relinquishes his iron grip lol. ( i studied Engineering in Ontario)

    I listened to the PODcast with Victor COnte a few months ago and while i found it very insightful, I already believe alot of what was said, so it was no longer shocking. There is no way that drugs have left the sport, and again, with the prevalence of the internet and information, athletes, coaches and sports teams are only getting smarter and more elusive with their drug regimen, well, everyone besides Blessing Okagbare and her team lol.

    Here was your response, "Economics has played a key role in ones abilities to see through their potential. Don't forget that fact."

    Can you elaborate a bit on what you meant by Economics? Are you referring to the athletes ability to sustain themselves throughout their training career. Traveling, food, supplementation, physio, etc etc?
    Last edited by YoungCj1; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:45 PM.

  8. #58
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Ange, I've said it before and I'll say it again. We all are so fortunate to have you hosting this site and honoring your husband's legacy. The information here is invaluable. Reading the books is awesome, but it's so cool to re-read them and then come on here and see Charlie discuss and APPLY his teachings in a practical and realistic way through his conversations on these forums. It goes to show it's not all about what Charlie thought, but it's HOW he thought that made a difference. I recently was reading a thread where he was discussing with other members about Michael Johnson and his training, and it's all about using common sense. There is no doubt that Charlie and Clyde Hart had different training systems, so it was really interesting to see Charlie talk about how he really wouldn't have changed much about his training at all. A lot of top-level coaches (I could give examples of these training groups but I don't think I need to mention names lol) will say "oh if this guy did things our way he'd be running X time", but that's purely from a dogmatic ego and just to promote their business scheme. Charlie never fixed something that wasn't broken. That brings to mind the example of how he was criticized for not "fixing" Angella's overstriding early on in her career. He patiently let her grow into it, and she obviously ended up benefiting greatly from it. Same thing with Ben's start. I am sure there are plenty of coaches today who say "imagine how much faster Ben would have been using the toe drag and doing wickets!". Charlie's wisdom goes well beyond analytics and it is why he had the results he had. He didn't just take 10 flat guys and improve them by a tenth or two. He started by developing kids who had nothing and helped build them into world champions. Today, we have too many "gurus".

    @YoungCj1 to answer your question, simply put, I do not believe there really is an established correlation. First off, I must say that by asking that question that already tells me you are motivated and inspired, because most people think they are done at 30. Heck, I have seen 22 year old college seniors who think they are topped out when I know for sure they could reach another tier if they put in the time to continue to train into their 30s.

    I think that part of the stigma is that people often watch mainstream sports and see athletes retire around 30 in a lot of the explosive sports. But these are PROFESSIONAL and ELITE athletes who: 1. are performing at such a high level that it can potentially cause more serious injuries, as well as forcing themselves to play through injuries in big money sports like the NFL/NBA etc. 2. they already have enough money made by that point and are mentally burnt out. My point is that these situations do not apply to someone who is still DEVELOPING, and also that there are outliers. So it's not a fair comparison. Giving up when we are in our 20's is an issue of how our society is structured. If I may be so bold, amateurism and the NCAA are a huge barrier to why people give up on sports (and life) so soon. I have been reading a bit on sprinters from the 19th and early 20th century when "professionalism" was the common practice, before amateurism was established. It was not uncommon to see professional sprinters compete well into their 30s or 40s back then.

    What I can say though is that we have seen many sprinters with long careers and performing well into later years. Su Bingtian just ran the fastest 30 and 60 meter splits ever, and he is 32. Kim Collins ran a PB of under 10 sec shortly before turning 40. There's also the case of Gatlin, who ran several PB's in his mid-to-late 30s and became world champion - this was also after a long hiatus - which you could speculate might have been beneficial for his longevity since he was not over-racing or over-training during those years. On the female side, the case of SAFP comes to mind, and she's 35 now and still on top of her game. There really are plenty of examples. One of the key things is to train smart at conservative volumes which will help you stay healthy, which is what enables you to continue to make progress.

    Another consideration is that as you get older, I think that some of the training emphasis needs to shift back to some of what is emphasized for beginners. As you get older, it is important to maintain general fitness, flexibility, and strength levels, and etc. Of course, these things are always in every good program, but sometimes advanced athletes (in the middle of a career) get to a point where they need a bit more specific work compared to general work because the high performance levels must prioritize those things. It is easy to get lost in the shuffle of emphasizing specific speed work too much and to begin neglecting the fundamentals, because at one's middle/peak years the general qualities are largely taken care of by the high performance levels of the specific task (if you are sprinting very fast, you are already applying massive force, already have flexibility to reach such great positions, and obviously are fit if you are running 10 flat for example, or whatever your PB may be. So the weights/flexibility/etc often take care of themselves to the point where you don't need to emphasize those training components as much as a beginner). Naturally as we age it is merely part of the process that we begin to lose some of these general qualities, and so they become more valuable again as you get later into your career. You could have great biomechanical patterning from years of being fast, but that all means nothing if not in the presence of adequate fitness, strength, flexibility, etc.

    Bottom line is that everyone's peak years will vary depending on multiple factors, so control the things you can and don't worry about the things you cannot control.
    Brett this was awesome man! I appreciate your response!

  9. #59
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungCj1 View Post
    Hey Ange, and thank you for your response.

    Yes this is certainly the age of technology and information. Virtually anything you want to research, is readily available online. Certainly there is an advantage for athletes in todays time as opposed to yesteryear. With that said, my search has been a bit scattered but I seem to be making ground on different strategies that speak about sports performance in sprinters.

    I wish i had the pleasure of meeting Charlie, I am still bewildered by how intuitive and wise he was just from his books and interviews. A man with little words but those words were impactful. I am honored to speak to you.

    Like Charlie and his athletes in Canada in 1988, there is VERY little support from my government, so i have been self funding my training as well, thankfully I own my own company and do fairly well for myself. Hopefully once Im well established I can make a trip to Canada again once Trudeau relinquishes his iron grip lol. ( i studied Engineering in Ontario)

    I listened to the PODcast with Victor COnte a few months ago and while i found it very insightful, I already believe alot of what was said, so it was no longer shocking. There is no way that drugs have left the sport, and again, with the prevalence of the internet and information, athletes, coaches and sports teams are only getting smarter and more elusive with their drug regimen, well, everyone besides Blessing Okagbare and her team lol.

    Here was your response, "Economics has played a key role in ones abilities to see through their potential. Don't forget that fact."

    Can you elaborate a bit on what you meant by Economics? Are you referring to the athletes ability to sustain themselves throughout their training career. Traveling, food, supplementation, physio, etc etc?

    Yes YoungCJ1, when I speak about economics I mean to remind everyone that our personal financial situation will dictate our ability to follow through with our potential goals in sport or any area.

  10. #60
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Coach Ange's blog

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Ange, I've said it before and I'll say it again. We all are so fortunate to have you hosting this site and honoring your husband's legacy. The information here is invaluable. Reading the books is awesome, but it's so cool to re-read them and then come on here and see Charlie discuss and APPLY his teachings in a practical and realistic way through his conversations on these forums. It goes to show it's not all about what Charlie thought, but it's HOW he thought that made a difference. I recently was reading a thread where he was discussing with other members about Michael Johnson and his training, and it's all about using common sense. There is no doubt that Charlie and Clyde Hart had different training systems, so it was really interesting to see Charlie talk about how he really wouldn't have changed much about his training at all. A lot of top-level coaches (I could give examples of these training groups but I don't think I need to mention names lol) will say "oh if this guy did things our way he'd be running X time", but that's purely from a dogmatic ego and just to promote their business scheme. Charlie never fixed something that wasn't broken. That brings to mind the example of how he was criticized for not "fixing" Angella's overstriding early on in her career. He patiently let her grow into it, and she obviously ended up benefiting greatly from it. Same thing with Ben's start. I am sure there are plenty of coaches today who say "imagine how much faster Ben would have been using the toe drag and doing wickets!". Charlie's wisdom goes well beyond analytics and it is why he had the results he had. He didn't just take 10 flat guys and improve them by a tenth or two. He started by developing kids who had nothing and helped build them into world champions. Today, we have too many "gurus".

    @YoungCj1 to answer your question, simply put, I do not believe there really is an established correlation. First off, I must say that by asking that question that already tells me you are motivated and inspired, because most people think they are done at 30. Heck, I have seen 22 year old college seniors who think they are topped out when I know for sure they could reach another tier if they put in the time to continue to train into their 30s.

    I think that part of the stigma is that people often watch mainstream sports and see athletes retire around 30 in a lot of the explosive sports. But these are PROFESSIONAL and ELITE athletes who: 1. are performing at such a high level that it can potentially cause more serious injuries, as well as forcing themselves to play through injuries in big money sports like the NFL/NBA etc. 2. they already have enough money made by that point and are mentally burnt out. My point is that these situations do not apply to someone who is still DEVELOPING, and also that there are outliers. So it's not a fair comparison. Giving up when we are in our 20's is an issue of how our society is structured. If I may be so bold, amateurism and the NCAA are a huge barrier to why people give up on sports (and life) so soon. I have been reading a bit on sprinters from the 19th and early 20th century when "professionalism" was the common practice, before amateurism was established. It was not uncommon to see professional sprinters compete well into their 30s or 40s back then.

    What I can say though is that we have seen many sprinters with long careers and performing well into later years. Su Bingtian just ran the fastest 30 and 60 meter splits ever, and he is 32. Kim Collins ran a PB of under 10 sec shortly before turning 40. There's also the case of Gatlin, who ran several PB's in his mid-to-late 30s and became world champion - this was also after a long hiatus - which you could speculate might have been beneficial for his longevity since he was not over-racing or over-training during those years. On the female side, the case of SAFP comes to mind, and she's 35 now and still on top of her game. There really are plenty of examples. One of the key things is to train smart at conservative volumes which will help you stay healthy, which is what enables you to continue to make progress.

    Another consideration is that as you get older, I think that some of the training emphasis needs to shift back to some of what is emphasized for beginners. As you get older, it is important to maintain general fitness, flexibility, and strength levels, and etc. Of course, these things are always in every good program, but sometimes advanced athletes (in the middle of a career) get to a point where they need a bit more specific work compared to general work because the high performance levels must prioritize those things. It is easy to get lost in the shuffle of emphasizing specific speed work too much and to begin neglecting the fundamentals, because at one's middle/peak years the general qualities are largely taken care of by the high performance levels of the specific task (if you are sprinting very fast, you are already applying massive force, already have flexibility to reach such great positions, and obviously are fit if you are running 10 flat for example, or whatever your PB may be. So the weights/flexibility/etc often take care of themselves to the point where you don't need to emphasize those training components as much as a beginner). Naturally as we age it is merely part of the process that we begin to lose some of these general qualities, and so they become more valuable again as you get later into your career. You could have great biomechanical patterning from years of being fast, but that all means nothing if not in the presence of adequate fitness, strength, flexibility, etc.

    Bottom line is that everyone's peak years will vary depending on multiple factors, so control the things you can and don't worry about the things you cannot control.

    You have summarized the areas regarding many things which influence sport and maturation of age in sport nicely. Thank you for doing so.

    As information catches up to a wider audience, it's expected that eventually all QB's in the NF will follow T. Brady's lead.
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:52 PM.

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