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Thread: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

  1. #21
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    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by James Smith View Post
    I advise you to reconsider how you've phrased that. While those with sprint knowledge are able to understand the point you're making, the language you are using here has the potential to mislead hordes of less knowledgable individuals. Namely because the reaction forces responsible for flight are generated on the ground (albeit by way of the manner in which the foot strikes the ground)- no matter how short the duration of ground contact.
    Absolutely. An oversight on my part. The ground is important.

    I'd rephrase it this way: in sprinting, volition, aggression, violence, happens in full and big ranges in the air, while finishing on the ground.

  2. #22
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    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by kwave View Post
    I want to clarify...

    When you say whipping your hip back, you really mean being quick and powerful in "step down and applying force", and doing so by having good knee drive, so that you can strike the ground really hard and quick? basically that powerful downward movement of the foot from highest knee height sets you up for that quick powerful support phase where you apply force that you hav..

    And when you say sprinting occurs in the air, and not on the ground, you really mean that you can't try to apply more force more quickly once you're foot is on the ground and only can do so by having powerful strike down while you're foot and body is still in the air? In another words, being very strong and fast with "negative foot speed"?

    So you wouldn't not try to push backward during contact, but be powerful and quick while the foot is on the way down and back towards the ground.

    Thank you.
    100%. Right on. I mention the cue "whip your hip back" because it is in the same in nature as the cue OP posted: "hammer the nail". I think 'stepping down' is an inadequate cue. Many athletes know they are stepping down yet coaches still tell them "your hips are low" — "keep your hips up". The athlete thinks WTF?! What Don't I get?? The cue I present is great language on getting athletes to step down. I stole the cue from Frans Bosch/Jonas Dodoo.

  3. #23

    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by jccc110m View Post
    Absolutely. An oversight on my part. The ground is important.

    I'd rephrase it this way: in sprinting, volition, aggression, violence, happens in full and big ranges in the air, while finishing on the ground.
    Thanks for clarification. Here is an article that describes max velocity sprinting essentially the same way http://speedendurance.com/2009/02/17...imum-velocity/

    Vince Anderson mentions in this article that there should only be a downstroke in sprinting, and according to him Carl and Leroy would emphasize getting the foot back down into the ground as quickly and powerfully as possible.

  4. #24
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    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by jccc110m View Post
    100%. Right on. I mention the cue "whip your hip back" because it is in the same in nature as the cue OP posted: "hammer the nail". I think 'stepping down' is an inadequate cue. Many athletes know they are stepping down yet coaches still tell them "your hips are low" — "keep your hips up". The athlete thinks WTF?! What Don't I get?? The cue I present is great language on getting athletes to step down. I stole the cue from Frans Bosch/Jonas Dodoo.
    Have you ever thought that what you have talked above has got nothing to do with cuing when “the athlete thinks WTF?!” Most of the new athletes going to respond the way you have described above or athletes who have a difficulty communicating/understanding their coaches.

    Whether I am going to say “step down” ,"your hips are low" or "keep your hips up" athletes I am working with know what I am talking about and what I want from them, they are able to correct it, whether they are 12 years old or 56 the response to cue is pretty much similar. How do I know that, one because I see it and because I’ve asked every single one of them whether they know as to what I want from them when I say …..

    Cuing is not the problem, communication between coach->athlete, athlete->coach is.

  5. #25

    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by James Smith View Post
    And while it was performed on a treadmill, albeit an instrumented one, this fantastic study (few years old), that includes your super talented countryman Christophe Lemaitre, highlights these very important facts: http://www.european-athletics.org/fi...Manuscript.pdf
    I am not French and unfortunately neither am I the esteemed (proper) coach PJ. I am actually Oldbloke with, I think, a screwed up username on this system !
    I suspect my username has been transposed to PJ in the board`s database, still a bug after 24 hrs so one to report to Angie.
    With any luck I will return as Glen Mills.....

  6. #26

    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Here is a video that talks a lot about cues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoKh-RYDDBY

    Around the 6:30 mark the video talks about using the hip extensors to drive the leg down, and mentions "stomping" occurs when athletes use the knee extensors to drive the leg down. My question is how do you know/subjectively feel you are using your hip extensors to drive down vs the knee extensors driving down?

  7. #27
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    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by wermouth View Post
    Have you ever thought that what you have talked above has got nothing to do with cuing when “the athlete thinks WTF?!” Most of the new athletes going to respond the way you have described above or athletes who have a difficulty communicating/understanding their coaches.

    Whether I am going to say “step down” ,"your hips are low" or "keep your hips up" athletes I am working with know what I am talking about and what I want from them, they are able to correct it, whether they are 12 years old or 56 the response to cue is pretty much similar. How do I know that, one because I see it and because I’ve asked every single one of them whether they know as to what I want from them when I say …..

    Cuing is not the problem, communication between coach->athlete, athlete->coach is.
    Cueing is a means to improve feedback loop between coaching and athlete, no? It's logical then that there are better cues (language that gets the athlete to execute what coach wants to see) or bad cues (cues that lack something which makes athletes unable to execute). The coaching problem is one hundred percent based on communication between athlete and coach. And there are a lot of ways to facilitate better communication: culture of training group, coach pedigree, their emotional intelligence... cue is just one tool.

    Is "push" a good cue? YES... if the athlete executes the coaches' ideal. What if the athlete doesn't seem to displace himself very far? 'Push the ground away'. Is that a better cue? NO.... if the athlete doesn't execute. When a disconnect between coaching demands and athlete performance arises, there is a need to create better communication. Cues are one of the pathways.

    My original post was talking about cues because that's what I inferred from OP's video and it's idea of 'hammer the nail'.

    Wermouth not sure if I responded to you appropriately but these are my thoughts on cueing. Have a top day.

  8. #28
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    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by pj View Post
    I am not French and unfortunately neither am I the esteemed (proper) coach PJ. I am actually Oldbloke with, I think, a screwed up username on this system !
    I suspect my username has been transposed to PJ in the board`s database, still a bug after 24 hrs so one to report to Angie.
    With any luck I will return as Glen Mills.....
    Hahaha, understood. I was thrown off because of the screen name, obviously, and PJ and I had just exchanged an email before I saw your post.

  9. #29

    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by James Smith View Post
    Hahaha, understood. I was thrown off because of the screen name, obviously, and PJ and I had just exchanged an email before I saw your post.
    Sure it will get fixed.
    But back to the thread- do you have any views on cues/techniques to maximise the horizontal component of force application when running. Or am I just overcomplicating things.
    Congratulations on forcing me to look up some old applied physics/mechanics equations twice in the last week.

  10. #30
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    Re: "hammer and nail" idea of sprinting

    Quote Originally Posted by pj View Post
    Sure it will get fixed.
    But back to the thread- do you have any views on cues/techniques to maximise the horizontal component of force application when running. Or am I just overcomplicating things.
    Congratulations on forcing me to look up some old applied physics/mechanics equations twice in the last week.
    In no way are you overcomplicating things, just the opposite, in fact, as it is, in my judgement, most coaches inability to effectively understand the underlying principles that serves as the most significant limiting factor.

    You're already on the right track by way of reviewing physics/mechanics. This is the key as the immutable nature of the physics provides us with the ability to generate undeniable explanations. I suspect I review as much physics information as any non-physicist out there.

    In terms of answering your question, I have a photo sequence with examples included in my upcoming book so I won't go into much detail here.

    Suffice it to state that what is already known, in terms of the physics of human motion, provides much of what any coach need know.

    Consider the mechanics of generating negative foot speed, the motion of the sprinter's hips and legs and feet, and build from there.

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