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Thread: 400m testing

  1. #1
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    400m testing

    I can't ever get myself pumped up to do a full blast 400m in training when I'm testing, I usually need to be in a race setting to do my best. I was wondering if anyone from their experience had workouts at lower intensities, 70-90%, that would predict a 400m performance? Let's say for a 50s run.

  2. #2

    Re: 400m testing

    That's pretty much always the case for race spec distances.

    Try a 300m and 600m. The chart I have says 36.5 and 82.0, timed from first contact over the line.

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    Re: 400m testing

    Thanks rainy but I was hoping for workouts that didn't involve maximal testing. For example I have read previously in a bud winter book that 200x3 with a jog back recovery at 25, 24, 23 was predictive of a 47s run, extrapolating that to someone running 51s I imagine it would be more 27, 26, 25 for the reps. There wasn't any details about how long the jog back took (as this can vary greatly) or whether the workout was done in spikes. I was wondering if anyone had any workouts they've used that can be done submaximally that can predict your 400m performance if you hit certain times over the reps.
    Last edited by Sprint94; 09-12-2016 at 07:46 AM.

  4. #4

    Re: 400m testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sprint94 View Post
    Thanks rainy but I was hoping for workouts that didn't involve maximal testing. For example I have read previously in a bud winter book that 200x3 with a jog back recovery at 25, 24, 23 was predictive of a 47s run, extrapolating that to someone running 51s I imagine it would be more 27, 26, 25 for the reps. There wasn't any details about how long the jog back took (as this can vary greatly) or whether the workout was done in spikes. I was wondering if anyone had any workouts they've used that can be done submaximally that can predict your 400m performance if you hit certain times over the reps.
    What about 2x split 400m?
    Run 250m @ 400m target pace or slightly faster. Rest 1minute. Run 150m all out. Rest 20min, repeat. I've found that adding your 2nd 250m and 150m times together is pretty close.

    It's also a maximal test. While Bud Winter knows a lot more than me, my opinion is that to get a decent 400m prediction workout, you need to do something that is similar in nature to a 400m.

  5. #5

    Re: 400m testing

    Quote Originally Posted by rainy.here View Post
    What about 2x split 400m?
    Run 250m @ 400m target pace or slightly faster. Rest 1minute. Run 150m all out. Rest 20min, repeat. I've found that adding your 2nd 250m and 150m times together is pretty close.

    It's also a maximal test. While Bud Winter knows a lot more than me, my opinion is that to get a decent 400m prediction workout, you need to do something that is similar in nature to a 400m.
    yes, most 400m trials are based on various split 400s (another example of course is kitkat 2x200). Exception perhaps of a single 300m effort.

    Maybe you could go sub max if you did something like 600 or 2x400 if you also ran a fast effort of say 150 to validate speed reserve.
    2x400 at sub max is a good way to prove 800m result.

  6. #6
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: 400m testing

    The best way to predict where you are for your 400m is during a race. That's obvious I know.

    Maybe you are the kind of athlete that is able to crank yourself up for anything in training or not? I loved racing during training as it was my own little competition as I got more experienced and logged all runs.

    If you are not able to get yourself motivated for one big run that's okay too. Here is where you must start thinking of art behind the science and become creative in how you think about your training.

    Remember that a great deal of innovation went into how Charlie coached and there were many reasons for that least of which were he had very few resources ever until the end of his official coaching.

    Using a 200 run and taking 1 minute rest and then doing another 200 run is how lot of people test the 400m as a possible predictor to what they are capable of. You need to make sure that second 200 is done from a stationary start or crouch start to get the best predictor of time.

    We did 300's often as 5 x 60 meters and this was one because we were indoors and two I was always having issues with my feet. To stay off the curve we kept as much as possible in a straight line.

    You could use the 100 m straight away outdoors, walk the curve, do another 100 and then finish with 4 x 50 meter which could be a turn around style finish. Each start on that 50 meters needs to be a crouch start not a running start.

    You could also do variations of this idea depending on what you are good at and where your strengths lay.

    I was fast over 10, 20, 30 and up to repeats of 60 meters but my best was really 30 and under. By the way that's fairly typical for females as a general rule. It's not that I did not do 150's or 200's or 300's or 500's. I did them in the fall and spring. But I got the most benefit with broken down variations of longer runs too because my acceleration was good.

    The faster you are in general the more you need to be concerned with longer term accumulation of running the corners in or out side of any sort.

  7. #7
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    Re: 400m testing

    You're right a 400m time trial would be the most accurate but just wanted to try something new that was also predictive, I train by myself most of the time so don't have the enjoyment of racing training partners when I do them. I have used split runs in the past as part of training, but I've found weirdly for me the correlation jumps about at different points in the year sometimes the max split run is 2s faster than my actual times and at other times they match. No idea why. Have you used 2x400 in the past oldbloke, what kind of times and rest periods would you expect from someone running 51s in your experience?
    Last edited by Sprint94; 09-14-2016 at 05:17 PM.

  8. #8
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: 400m testing

    Don't forget that max split runs include acceleration time. So in the workouts where we did 5 x 60 m for 300's we would take off 4 seconds to predict the actual 300 time which accounted for the turnabout and I guess are neutralized because of the acceleration.
    I think you mean 2 x 200 m and you run one 200 from crouch start, take 60 seconds and do another 200m.

  9. #9

    Re: 400m testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sprint94 View Post
    You're right a 400m time trial would be the most accurate but just wanted to try something new that was also predictive, I train by myself most of the time so don't have the enjoyment of racing training partners when I do them. I have used split runs in the past as part of training, but I've found weirdly for me the correlation jumps about at different points in the year sometimes the max split run is 2s faster than my actual times and at other times they match. No idea why. Have you used 2x400 in the past oldbloke, what kind of times and rest periods would you expect from someone running 51s in your experience?
    2x200m with walk 200 recovery between efforts. Times added together equaled 400m race time.
    2x400 with walk 200 recovery. Times added together equaled 800m race time. Session was not relevant to a 400 race time unless i had proved speed reserve over 150-200.
    My personal experience and fellow runners are all at masters age group. So 51 secs is a bit elite for us. Nevertheless 200m flat times or split runs seem to correlate pretty well over all age groups.
    Having tried everything from 100m to marathon i strongly believe that (almost) max efforts are the best predictor of race times. Trialling over about half the race distance and extrapolating works. Whether it is 40m > 100m pace or 10mile > marathon. 70 to 90 percent just proves endurance - speed reserve is king.

  10. #10
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    Re: 400m testing

    Ok thanks I'll try 2x200on 60 seconds and make the necessary adjustments. I think when I ran my split runs faster than my actual times it was earlier in the year around January, maybe due to a lack of race sharpness and the fact my races were on an indoor track. They usually matched up towards the outdoor season.

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