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Thread: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

  1. #41
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris6878 View Post
    i pick the zika virus............
    lol in London they had to wear layers due to the cold...now what?

    I forgot to put a link in my post above.."racing" through it and all.

    RE Ben's plan - according to one of his interviews afterwards.

    BJ "In the Semis I decided I'd send panic into them all with a strong race, but I was a bit upset when they called a false start on me"
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,6962752&hl=en

    I also didn't put in T Gay beating Powell after the WCs in 09. (Even though it was a month later).
    To be fair to Powell, he had been through quite a bit that year with foot problems so he def gets a pass this year but
    he still came through on the day it counted very well.

    Bolt bests Powell again 9.81 to 9.88 0.0w Aug. 28 2009
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yaGEqrV4E

    Powell Season Best 9.82 1.4w sep. 15 2009
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doZ63z0gJqI

    Tyson beats AP 2.0w 9.69 to 9.85 sep. 20 2009
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhsqVfOB9ig

    Anyways, Go Andre DeGrasse!!!

  2. #42
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by James Smith View Post
    Keep in mind, however, that Ben was perhaps the most exceptionally strong sprinter there has ever been. This, combined with his preference to not perform special endurance (in the long to short context), was the dominant reason for him performing the predominance of work under the distance of speed/special endurance. In addition, he was, by in large, a 100m specialist which further supports as an absence of conventional special endurance work.

    Let no one forget that Ben performed substantial volumes of special endurance in the form of split 60's. So while the continuous runs were kept in the shorter distances, the physiological adaptations were there.

    I'd question what percentage of elite sprinters would benefit versus suffer from no training in, at least, the speed endurance realm. If I were to bet, I'd bet that no, or very little, work beyond max velocity distance would lead to more detriment than advantage when looking at the field as a whole- even considering 100m specialists.

    The collegiate scenario is obviously different as the volume of competitions fulfills the speed/special endurance requirement to a far greater extent than an international competitor who is picking their own schedule.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...cONJUBhXCk6KpA

    maybe so but Pre Zurich Ben said he was doing lots (he likes that word- lots-(h)eggs) ..."working on my upper body. I've run a lot of 150s in practice. I'm still in good shape..."
    He ran a lot of 120s also.

    Speed may lead strength but working out the upper body certainly helped his bench press.
    The 150s helped him no doubt.
    The chance to rest Physically and Mentally after his injury in May was at the right time.

  3. #43

    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    My first observation here is that Andre ran 6.61 at Millrose. He ran 6.60 in Tyson last year. I know that leaving USC for ALTIS was Puma's choice, not Andre or his parents. ALTIS has some big shoes to fill after last year, and thus far they are not filling them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Pfaff

    Well you can only do what the athlete can withstand and there is a cost benefit analysis to it all. Could we do more? Y1es, but then the risk of injury rises which could mess up their biochemistry and stall their progress. So we did more but where did it get us? There is this myth that if you train harder and longer, or you do more of it then you will be instantly be a better athlete. This is one of the single greatest myths in power speed out there. It is like how strong do you need to be to be a world class thrower? Or how far do you need to stretch out your sprint runs in order to develop endurance. Iíve had several sub-10 athletes who NEVER ran anything further than 150m in training. Now there are systems where athletes run 500, 400, 300 and do intensive tempo 10x200m and all that kind of stuff and they are very successful but the way we train and package things we try and see how little we can do to get the maximum results because we want to minimize the injury risk and maximize the use of the time we have available.

    I look at postural integrity. If they start to change postures and sub-recruit muscles they shouldnít be using I stop the workout. I look at the reflexivity of the joints and how fluid the motion is. If the fluidity goes away and it starts to look mechanical we stop. In terms of recovery between sessions and readiness to train that day, depending on the budget we also look at many markers of recovery from pulse rate right through to using portable blood lactate analyzers and taking blood and urine to look for chemical markers.

    Doing this kind of analysis on world class athletes tells you a lot of things, for example, on acceleration development days we may do 5x3x10-40m with 3-5min minutes between runs. Well with guys like Donovan Bailey, Oberdaley Thompson, Karim Street-Thompson, Bruny Surin, they would be pumping 18mmols of lactate at the end of that workout whereas a world class quarter miler at the end of the race is only pumping 10-11mmol. So lactate isnít the enemy. Actually if you study the Krebs cycle lactate is very anabolic so we want lactate, we just want to control what days we get it, how much and what we do when it is in the blood stream. The better the power speed athlete the greater the amounts of lactate they can produce. I mean we have throwers on the Olympic platform and when they are done with the lifts they are pumping 12-14mmols of lactate and they havenít run a step. Also on block workout days we then go to the Olympic platform and we setup curves of lactate infusion because one of the problems we have in sprinting, at the world class level, is four races in two days at the big championships and so there are huge slopes to these blood lactate levels. The athletes have to learn how to weather very steep lactate introductions into the tissue and then rapid dismissal of it. And that is very different to putting an athlete in tempo training or interval training Ė during which you would traditionally get an athlete to a certain level of lactate and do work there. Sprinters and Jumpers never encounter that kind of lactate environment in competition so why train them there?
    Regarding Caryl Smith-Gilbert vs professionals, I think I'm not exactly the only person after last year to go through Caryl's presentations with a fine toothed comb seeking answers to the question, "How did she do that?", and I think I see a couple of things, besides substantial amount explosive/eccentric development:

    (1) In training, she appears to be only going above 90% load once a week, and that is special endurance. Two other days about acceleration and explosive strength are listed as 80-90%, so I think one thing is to not run down athletes in training, and that is certainly something that Charlie would wholeheartedly support. See here:

    http://www.ustfccca.org/assets/sympo...lbert-2014.pdf

    (2) Races for speed endurance. Remember there was a thread by G-force (Gerald Phiri), where Charlie said "Speed endurance is best developed in races" and suggested a comp schedule where the only hard effort is a race and everything else is submax.

    I see in the USC schedule that they are doing 7 race weeks in a row starting in 2-3 weeks, then there's a break for preparation for championships

  4. #44
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...cONJUBhXCk6KpA

    maybe so but Pre Zurich Ben said he was doing lots (he likes that word- lots-(h)eggs) ..."working on my upper body. I've run a lot of 150s in practice. I'm still in good shape..."
    He ran a lot of 120s also.

    Speed may lead strength but working out the upper body certainly helped his bench press.
    The 150s helped him no doubt.
    The chance to rest Physically and Mentally after his injury in May was at the right time.
    Yes, I recall Charlie mentioning on occasion how Ben told him he didn't want to perform anything beyond 150 or so and that was when he ceased performing any special endurance runs longer than that.

  5. #45

    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by James Smith View Post
    Yes, I recall Charlie mentioning on occasion how Ben told him he didn't want to perform anything beyond 150 or so and that was when he ceased performing any special endurance runs longer than that.
    Charlie actually posted on here that Ben ran 2X200 slightly under 20.0 with 30 minutes. But we have Angella Issajenko, who said that Ben's secret was that he refused to do long SE. And with Ben, Dr. Pfaff, and Tony Wells not going over 150, I frankly don't see the reason to, provided you're doing the special endurance.

  6. #46
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by lkh View Post
    Charlie actually posted on here that Ben ran 2X200 slightly under 20.0 with 30 minutes. But we have Angella Issajenko, who said that Ben's secret was that he refused to do long SE. And with Ben, Dr. Pfaff, and Tony Wells not going over 150, I frankly don't see the reason to, provided you're doing the special endurance.
    I agree. In principle, no sprinter necessitates sprint work much beyond the distance of their event. The question, however, is what each sprinter responds to most effectively during each stage of their development. In this way, we know the value of long to short and aggregate approaches for certain sprinters at certain times.

  7. #47
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    from what I heard Stu works with Andre, not Dan. I love Altis and what they do. However I don't get why anyone would change what works and leave a system for another one after they got a bronze in the world championship and won pan am. He only needso be a little faster to win a medal in Rio. I'm sure another yr with his collegiate coach would facilitate

  8. #48
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Very disappointing he left a place where things have been going very well.
    Ditto Ditto

  9. #49
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarcho1 View Post
    from what I heard Stu works with Andre, not Dan. I love Altis and what they do. However I don't get why anyone would change what works and leave a system for another one after they got a bronze in the world championship and won pan am. He only needso be a little faster to win a medal in Rio. I'm sure another yr with his collegiate coach would facilitate
    This is no knock on Caryl Smith-Gilbert but do you realize that Andre practically got off the bus in LA and on the first day of practice with no training or preparation did a flying 30m at a WC level?

  10. #50
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    If anyone watched the Millrose Games you saw a very unimpressive list of times, for a variety of events, including the men's 60m which Andre won despite a bad start. He ran the field down, however, the times were all +6.6 thus the end result of the win was good yet not by way of the time.

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