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Thread: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

  1. #31

    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Good article on DeGrasse. I thought leaving USC was risky but racing that much with little therapy and rest would have been even riskier.

    de-grasse-settling-into-new-digs-in-phoenix

    He raced an extraordinary 54 times last season.

    "Half of that would be a lot," said McMillan, a Canadian who has coached more than 50 Olympians, both summer and winter. "Normally if you ask a sprinter how many races they want before they're going into a championship, it would be between eight and 12. His 30th race was his NCAA 100 final. Twenty-four races later, he was clearly exhausted.

    "It was unbelievable he was able to run that fast (at the world championships in Beijing). He's got something (special), there's no doubt."

    The world 100 final was race No. 52. Races 53 and 54 were the heats and finals of the 4x100 relay, in which Canada won bronze.

    "He took four weeks off and got back into pretty intense training with not a lot of therapeutic input," McMillan said. "He's one of the most powerful human beings on the planet, so when you have somebody who's that powerful, and you load him that consistently over time without much therapy, the body is going to take a bit of a beating."

  2. #32
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    No guarantees but I doubt he was going to race that much since he had already turned professional prior to moving to Altis-as pushed by PUMA. Typically, I would think, only collegians would have that many opportunities to run so many races-not impossible but a lot more difficult.

  3. #33

    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    No guarantees but I doubt he was going to race that much since he had already turned professional prior to moving to Altis-as pushed by PUMA. Typically, I would think, only collegians would have that many opportunities to run so many races-not impossible but a lot more difficult.
    Go back to the discussion here about Andre last summer and see how many were sure that de Grasse was going to be cooked by the world championships. In fact, #52 was a PB, and de Grasse wasn't the only one Smith-Gilbert had that ended up like that. Andre's training partner, Beejay Lee, who didn't score a point in NCAAs outside the relay, then went to USATF Championships against pros and missed making the US team in the 200 by 0.01. There were several like that, who improved every single race, all season.

    One lesson I learned from this is don't do speed endurance in training (80-150)--special endurance in training and speed endurance in races only. I remember asking Charlie once what Ben's phase III was like, and Charlie said that it was almost all 60's, with an occasional 2X200 session to maintain (there's an old thread out there somewhere).

  4. #34
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by lkh View Post
    Go back to the discussion here about Andre last summer and see how many were sure that de Grasse was going to be cooked by the world championships. In fact, #52 was a PB, and de Grasse wasn't the only one Smith-Gilbert had that ended up like that. Andre's training partner, Beejay Lee, who didn't score a point in NCAAs outside the relay, then went to USATF Championships against pros and missed making the US team in the 200 by 0.01. There were several like that, who improved every single race, all season.

    One lesson I learned from this is don't do speed endurance in training (80-150)--special endurance in training and speed endurance in races only. I remember asking Charlie once what Ben's phase III was like, and Charlie said that it was almost all 60's, with an occasional 2X200 session to maintain (there's an old thread out there somewhere).
    Yes, I remember it well. I did not agree with that-that he would have nothing left. I knew CSG had a history of having sprinters prepared for big meets. There were likely some good sprinters that don't immediately come to mind even before DeeDee Trotter at UT then UCF with Scott and Freeman.

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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by lkh View Post
    One lesson I learned from this is don't do speed endurance in training (80-150)--special endurance in training and speed endurance in races only. I remember asking Charlie once what Ben's phase III was like, and Charlie said that it was almost all 60's, with an occasional 2X200 session to maintain (there's an old thread out there somewhere).
    Keep in mind, however, that Ben was perhaps the most exceptionally strong sprinter there has ever been. This, combined with his preference to not perform special endurance (in the long to short context), was the dominant reason for him performing the predominance of work under the distance of speed/special endurance. In addition, he was, by in large, a 100m specialist which further supports as an absence of conventional special endurance work.

    Let no one forget that Ben performed substantial volumes of special endurance in the form of split 60's. So while the continuous runs were kept in the shorter distances, the physiological adaptations were there.

    I'd question what percentage of elite sprinters would benefit versus suffer from no training in, at least, the speed endurance realm. If I were to bet, I'd bet that no, or very little, work beyond max velocity distance would lead to more detriment than advantage when looking at the field as a whole- even considering 100m specialists.

    The collegiate scenario is obviously different as the volume of competitions fulfills the speed/special endurance requirement to a far greater extent than an international competitor who is picking their own schedule.

  6. #36
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by James Smith View Post
    Keep in mind, however, that Ben was perhaps the most exceptionally strong sprinter there has ever been. This, combined with his preference to not perform special endurance (in the long to short context), was the dominant reason for him performing the predominance of work under the distance of speed/special endurance. In addition, he was, by in large, a 100m specialist which further supports as an absence of conventional special endurance work.

    Let no one forget that Ben performed substantial volumes of special endurance in the form of split 60's. So while the continuous runs were kept in the shorter distances, the physiological adaptations were there.

    I'd question what percentage of elite sprinters would benefit versus suffer from no training in, at least, the speed endurance realm. If I were to bet, I'd bet that no, or very little, work beyond max velocity distance would lead to more detriment than advantage when looking at the field as a whole- even considering 100m specialists.

    The collegiate scenario is obviously different as the volume of competitions fulfills the speed/special endurance requirement to a far greater extent than an international competitor who is picking their own schedule.
    Flashback to the first time BJ steps on the Track to practice.

    CF must have been thinking-
    He doesn't have the Strength
    nor the height lol nor the money

    But does he have the Will?

    Here is BJ in an interview just after the Final in 88
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nar8NXIyOFA
    Talking how everything was in place and focusing on Endurance after his loss in Zurich.

    DeGrasse

    Hard to imagine that any of his needs will go unrecognized where he is at now.

    I don't recall many here writing that he will be "cooked" by the WCs. I only remember one member saying that.
    Maybe it was on another website perhaps?

  7. #37
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Flashback to the first time BJ steps on the Track to practice.

    CF must have been thinking-
    He doesn't have the Strength
    nor the height lol nor the money

    But does he have the Will?

    Here is BJ in an interview just after the Final in 88
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nar8NXIyOFA
    Talking how everything was in place and focusing on Endurance after his loss in Zurich.

    DeGrasse

    Hard to imagine that any of his needs will go unrecognized where he is at now.

    I don't recall many here writing that he will be "cooked" by the WCs. I only remember one member saying that.
    Maybe it was on another website perhaps?
    Thanks for the interview link. I hadn't seen that before. would have been nice had Ben further elucidated upon what he began with in stating that he did not misjudge his effort in the heats. As we all know, Charlie guided his athletes in conserving as much as possible in the heats, gradually raising tone up to the final. This is strategical information that Gatlin could have used prior to the WCs per the article I wrote for Christopher Glaeser.

  8. #38
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    I read that and BTW, I forgot to mention that I did briefly speak with Chris G. face to face for the first time on Jan. 30. I went to see Boo S. present. Very polished and solid presentation. Great jokes also.

    I put this together pretty quickly just now..I'll come back to see if it needs corrections, etc.

    CAN
    Ben Johnson

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,4585375&hl=en

    Ben "I decided to run very slow heats. I chose this tactic to mislead Lewis.
    This is consistent with the other interviews of his that I have read.
    Him beating Lewis was his dominant thought it seemed.

    BJ's plan was screwed up in the SF with the FS called on him.
    He was clearly sprinting at a super high level even exceeding the Rome Final in it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXsPLHEu88o
    Warm up area 1988
    Anyone see any weights out there??? LOL

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoKtMc8YThU
    Conspiracy theorists look to the 1:30 mark and see Desai possibly faking drinking out of a bottle and offering it to Ben. Like Ato once wrote- You can only vouch for yourself eh?

    -----
    Gatlin? Here is Carl in Tokyo doing the same thing but with no more BJ to worry about he wins it.
    9.80w at 3 min. mark on day 1 followed up with a 9.93 in the SF. WR at the time was 9.90.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z52nuu4yCA
    Carl is a legend and was probably heading to 9.8 territory himself if he didn't press in the 88 Final. 91 -Remove Ben and Carl can now not have to over emphasize the beginning of his race and shift more of the work towards his strength and possibly extending it (alactic) ever so slightly.

    Gatlin had Bolt on the mind as well and fell apart. I wrote about it on two other websites long ago that he would do this in a close battle. We can def discuss this a lot more at a later date.

    IMO Gatlin will beat Bolt this year is my thinking right now. It will probably change over the course of the year from what I see but I doubt it. Gatlin has learned his lesson the hard way. Too bad it will be for Silver however.

    What about Powell? He is another matter all together.
    What's the difference between a good hair cut and a bad hair cut?

    About two weeks!
    Substitute hair cut with Program/timing and in an OLY Year...Not good.
    Powell doesn't ever lose to anyone not named Bolt right after a Major.
    Usain Bolt Asafa Powell 100m Golden League Brussels 2008
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsLT-Yi5gg
    Wind-1,3 m/s)
    1. Usain Bolt JAM 9.77
    2. Asafa Powell JAM 9.83

  9. #39
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    I read that and BTW, I forgot to mention that I did briefly speak with Chris G. face to face for the first time on Jan. 30. I went to see Boo S. present. Very polished and solid presentation. Great jokes also.

    I put this together pretty quickly just now..I'll come back to see if it needs corrections, etc.

    CAN
    Ben Johnson

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,4585375&hl=en

    Ben "I decided to run very slow heats. I chose this tactic to mislead Lewis.
    This is consistent with the other interviews of his that I have read.
    Him beating Lewis was his dominant thought it seemed.

    BJ's plan was screwed up in the SF with the FS called on him.
    He was clearly sprinting at a super high level even exceeding the Rome Final in it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXsPLHEu88o
    Warm up area 1988
    Anyone see any weights out there??? LOL

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoKtMc8YThU
    Conspiracy theorists look to the 1:30 mark and see Desai possibly faking drinking out of a bottle and offering it to Ben. Like Ato once wrote- You can only vouch for yourself eh?

    -----
    Gatlin? Here is Carl in Tokyo doing the same thing but with no more BJ to worry about he wins it.
    9.80w at 3 min. mark on day 1 followed up with a 9.93 in the SF. WR at the time was 9.90.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z52nuu4yCA
    Carl is a legend and was probably heading to 9.8 territory himself if he didn't press in the 88 Final. 91 -Remove Ben and Carl can now not have to over emphasize the beginning of his race and shift more of the work towards his strength and possibly extending it (alactic) ever so slightly.

    Gatlin had Bolt on the mind as well and fell apart. I wrote about it on two other websites long ago that he would do this in a close battle. We can def discuss this a lot more at a later date.

    IMO Gatlin will beat Bolt this year is my thinking right now. It will probably change over the course of the year from what I see but I doubt it. Gatlin has learned his lesson the hard way. Too bad it will be for Silver however.

    What about Powell? He is another matter all together.
    What's the difference between a good hair cut and a bad hair cut?

    About two weeks!
    Substitute hair cut with Program/timing and in an OLY Year...Not good.
    Powell doesn't ever lose to anyone not named Bolt right after a Major.
    Usain Bolt Asafa Powell 100m Golden League Brussels 2008
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsLT-Yi5gg
    Wind-1,3 m/s)
    1. Usain Bolt JAM 9.77
    2. Asafa Powell JAM 9.83
    Nice post.

    As for Rio, if everyone is firing on all cylinders, I realize that's a substantial 'if', I would pick 1. Bolt, 2. Blake, 3. Gatlin

    Some recent press on Blake: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport...tter-_19225631

  10. #40
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    Re: Andre DeGrasse to Altis

    Quote Originally Posted by James Smith View Post
    Nice post.

    As for Rio, if everyone is firing on all cylinders, I realize that's a substantial 'if', I would pick 1. Bolt, 2. Blake, 3. Gatlin

    Some recent press on Blake: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport...tter-_19225631
    i pick the zika virus............

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