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Thread: need help with hurdle issues

  1. #21

    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    I'm not sure how to progress the hurdle workouts. Do I keep running on 39s for the whole training year besides meets? Do I gradually increase the distance between the hurdles? Right now it just seems like a lot of guess work.

  2. #22
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    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    If you hurdle 3x/wk you can move them around and do 39s twice and 36s once or switch that early on 36x2 39x1 and possibly over time move to more 39s. If doing 2xweek hurdle work then once at 36 and the other day at 39s. If I'm using 42s its usually just for partial hurdles-trails over sides, leads over sides and maybe a few over the center/top of 42s though not typically as a sprint hurdle run more of a slow to fast build-up into each takeoff which is IMO is a better way to do since you are not trying to hurdle with a race rhythm. Most of our drills (meaning, in this case, slower reps, not full speed) are over 39s with some over 42s. I also usually mix in some flat sprint work with hurdle accelerations, hurdle speed so I usually don't have a hurdler ONLY hurdling.

    If using rhythm endurance for the highs over say 8-12H, you can put some at 36s and some at 39s they don't have to be the same. There are articles I've seen which show the hurdles that certain level performers lose speed at that if going over 39s over say 5H and you know H6 speed tends to drop some you might put in a 36 at say H6 or H7. You've also probably seen, though I've only done this on a few occasions, is to remove a hurdle so you can bring greater velocity at takeoff since you can now get in 5 strides between hurdles. If you can do this it also helps to overcome the fear of losing control of taking off at higher velocities. It's this fear of lack of control for some athletes that keeps some hurdlers NOT being active with the takeoff foot. The vaulted takeoff is obviously easier to control but slower and creates a high flight and collapse at touchdown-big drop in velocity. The 5 strides can also be placed in a flight of hurdles when you are aware you might typically be losing some speed, achieving slower touchdowns.

    Some will even on occasion lengthen the approach distance to H1 to again allow the athlete to experience a velocity much higher than normally possible in the standard distance to H1 of 13.72m. Some will do go out to 17 or 21m to H1. I don't do this very often but adding that distance to H1 or removing a hurdle to allow five strides is thought by some to be a way to surpass a plateau, get over some degree of staleness.

    Yes, for many they will, as they feel crowded by the (hoped for) improved speed between hurdles requires for some that they move the hurdles back out to closer to (though not likely right at)comp. spacing. Some coaches late in the year will move their athletes back to comp. spacing though I typically don't do this.

  3. #23

    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    If you hurdle 3x/wk you can move them around and do 39s twice and 36s once or switch that early on 36x2 39x1 and possibly over time move to more 39s. If doing 2xweek hurdle work then once at 36 and the other day at 39s. If I'm using 42s its usually just for partial hurdles-trails over sides, leads over sides and maybe a few over the center/top of 42s though not typically as a sprint hurdle run more of a slow to fast build-up into each takeoff which is IMO is a better way to do since you are not trying to hurdle with a race rhythm. Most of our drills are over 39s with some over 42s. I also usually mix in some flat sprint work with hurdle accelerations, hurdle speed so I usually don't have a hurdler ONLY hurdling.

    If using rhythm endurance for the highs over say 8-12H, you can put some at 36s and some at 39s they don't have to be the same. There are articles I've seen which show the hurdles that certain level performers lose speed at that if going over 39s over say 5H and you know H6 speed tends to drop some you might put in a 36 at say H6 or H7. You've also probably seen, though I've only done this on a few occasions, is to remove a hurdle so you can bring greater velocity at takeoff since you can now get in 5 strides between hurdles. If you can do this it also helps to overcome the fear of losing control of taking off at higher velocities. It's this fear of lack of control for some athletes that keeps some hurdlers NOT being active with the takeoff foot. The vaulted takeoff is obviously easier to control but slower and creates a high flight and collapse at touchdown-big drop in velocity. The 5 strides can also be placed in a flight of hurdles when you are aware you might typically be losing some speed, achieving slower touchdowns.

    Some will even on occasion lengthen the approach distance to H1 to again allow the athlete to experience a velocity much higher than normally possible in the standard distance to H1 of 13.72m. Some will do go out to 17 or 21m to H1. I don't do this very often but adding that distance to H1 or removing a hurdle to allow five strides is thought by some to be a way to surpass a plateau, get over some degree of staleness.

    Yes, for many they will, as they feel crowded by the (hoped for) improved speed between hurdles requires for some that they move the hurdles back out to closer to (though not likely right at)comp. spacing. Some coaches late in the year will move their athletes back to comp. spacing though I typically don't do this.
    Wowsers I really appreciate the detail in your reply. Sounds like a plan!
    Here is the workout for tomorrow: Modified version of Tony Veney
    Warm-up Drills/acceleration drills
    4-6 starts over 2H set at 8m apart and 39"
    4-6 starts over 4H set at 8m apart and 36"
    3x30m @ 95% with 3 minutes rest
    Bounding/plyo series 3x30m

  4. #24
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    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Bentz View Post
    Wowsers I really appreciate the detail in your reply. Sounds like a plan!
    Here is the workout for tomorrow: Modified version of Tony Veney
    Warm-up Drills/acceleration drills
    4-6 starts over 2H set at 8m apart and 39"
    4-6 starts over 4H set at 8m apart and 36"
    3x30m @ 95% with 3 minutes rest
    Bounding/plyo series 3x30m
    Re: Veney, I met him years ago once attending a camp as a coach and another as a staff coach where he was also on staff. That sounds fine what you suggest. I will say if you need to go as short at 8m then you need to do that but those are very close for a male HH. Some coaches will take simply move H2 in one foot length from the mark, H3 in either 1 1/2 foot lengths or 2 full foot lengths and so on. Either measure with tape or step it off size 11-12 shoes are going to be roughly 30cm of spacing so if I move H2 (edit.) in one foot length that will be 8.84m and so on. You can either reduce each as described above or keep the first 3-4H at the same spacing and if going longer say out to H6 you might start reducing spacing more from H4 or H5 out to as far as you are going. There are workouts that if doing say 8-12H might either reduce every hurdle OR after H4 again after H6 or 7 when you expect speed losses to be greater and thus you account for this by reducing by more at that point in the flight. So perhaps stick with 8m or a little more and move back out if you feel overly jammed by such close spacing.

    There are also programs that have you go over closer to comp. spacing and height (though still reduced spacing and height) but on a purely technical day they reduce the hurdles even more so the very reduced spacing (which I think 8m is getting close to though it may be right for you now) which greatly limits the velocity you can run at and keeps it from being a high intensity day. Tony Wells (a mentor to Veney at one time) would do hard accel. work on a Mon. probably over a few hurdles at close to though not at comp. spacing and height but then come back the next day with 6.5m spacing for women (men would likely be 7.0-7.5 on such days if I had to guess) focusing on lead leg on one rep, trail leg on another rep and trail arm on yet another (down and around, "cut off" the trail leg at the knee with the lead arm). This way someone could get in technical work without great speed though obviously they would need to limit the number of reps of this or it could become too much volume. I don't do a distinctly tech. day after a speed, acceleration day but I think it's a valid way to approach hurdle training.

  5. #25
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    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    I've been away for a bit. Give me a chance to catch up on the posts below. I did want to share two people I can't recommend enough for therapy near you.

    Don Butzner is in Corvalis, and Holley DeShaw in Portland. Both have worked with the best in the world (Aries Merritt, Muna Lee, Ashton & Brianne Eaton, Olympic Team therapists etc) you get the point.

    Here is Holley's info.
    http://bikramyogawestlinn.com/oregon...s-massage-llc/

    Don may be harder to see since he has a personal contract with athletes. PM and I can send you his contact info.

  6. #26
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    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    Bentz,

    Could you provide a sample weekly schedule of training? I'd be interested in seeing a side view of one hurdle as well.

    To me, there was a significant change from the grass videos to the track videos. Did you focus on any specific cues for the track session?

    I have a lot more to say but want to see your reply first.

  7. #27
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    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    Great feedback guys and thank you for your help.
    If there is anything specific you have to ask please do and I will answer.
    Pioneer and Esti will be of greatest help however because I primarily speak from a female perspective.
    If I am able to help I will.
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 10-01-2015 at 12:18 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Great feedback guy and thank you for your help.
    If there is anything specific you have to ask please do and I will answer.
    Pioneer and Esti will be of greatest help however because I primarily speak from a female perspective.
    If I am able to help I will.
    Ange most of my success with males was a result of your advice! 😀

  9. #29

    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    Quote Originally Posted by ESTI View Post
    Bentz,

    Could you provide a sample weekly schedule of training? I'd be interested in seeing a side view of one hurdle as well.

    To me, there was a significant change from the grass videos to the track videos. Did you focus on any specific cues for the track session?

    I have a lot more to say but want to see your reply first.
    thanks for your input it means a lot. Here is some rear footage from Monday's session, will get side views tomorrow...

    the workout was:
    dynamic warmup
    hurdle drills(lead leg, trail leg, 1-step, 3-step variations)
    4x block starts over 2h@ 39" spacing at 27ft between h1 and h2
    4x block starts over 4h@ 36" spacing at 29ft
    had some really aggressive starts over the 36s. best touchdown time was 2.55, 3.7, 4.9, 6.05

    I'm focusing on a couple technique points. Most of my career I was a straight leg lead leg so ive been drilling that out and its still a work in a progress. I'm trying to be more active in the arms and keeping everything moving forward through the middle of the hurdle without excessive twisting or the arms crossing the midline. Pioneer gave me great tips on the arms and being more aggressive with the cut step, so on the 3rd and 4th hurdle there was a distinct difference in how that felt once I got into rythym.

    Im very active on Instagram and follow Terry Reese Jr., a 13.2 american back in the 90s. He's been giving me advice on a tighter trail leg and i would agree on most of his observations. I think the side views will help clarify the finer technical points.

    My training week ideally is a Hi/lo split 6 days a week. Today I took off because of job interviews and a lack of sleep. So here is the modified week-

    Monday- hi - hurdles, long jump, weights
    dynamic warmup
    hurdle drills(lead leg, trail leg, 1-step, 3-step variations)
    4x block starts over 2h@ 39" spacing at 27ft between h1 and h2
    4x block starts over 4h@ 36" spacing at 29ft

    4xLJ approach rehearsals
    6x 6 step takeoffs

    weights- hexbar deadlifts, wall ankle mobs, reverse barbell lunge, ab wheel, DB OH press, TYI shoulder drills
    cooldown- limber 11, thoracic spine/lat mobility
    hydrotherapy- 20min at 55 degrees
    contrast shower

    Tuesday- Lo- extensive tempo, javelin technique, medball core work
    grass tempo-2800m total volume @75%. 90 seconds rest between reps,
    2x200m 6x100m
    4x200m
    8x100m 1x200m
    3 rounds med ball circuit
    javelin band drills

    cooldown, contrast shower, stretching

    Wednesday- OFF

    Thursday- Hi- Hurdles, shot,
    dynamic warmup
    6 stand throws L/R
    hurdle warmup drills as subsets
    6 glide stops, 6 full throws
    subsets
    3x 5-step over 6 hurdles @39"
    3x 5-step over 6 hurdles @42"

    4x block starts over 5h @ 36" 29ft spacing

    Weights-upper body variations
    cooldow/ therapy


    Friday- LO- extensive tempo, jav tech, medball
    very similar to tuesday

    Saturday- HI- HJ, LJ, hurdles
    dynamic warmup
    12x HJ approach rehearsal
    6x 6 step LJ takeoff
    hurdle drills
    3x 5-step over 6 hurdles @39", 3x 5-step over 6 hurdles @42"

    Weights- lower body variations
    cooldown/therapy

    Sunday- Active recovery- contrast shower, stretching, self massage

  10. #30

    Re: need help with hurdle issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Great feedback guys and thank you for your help.
    If there is anything specific you have to ask please do and I will answer.
    Pioneer and Esti will be of greatest help however because I primarily speak from a female perspective.
    If I am able to help I will.
    Much appreciated. I'm 10 weeks out from my first heptathlon in Centralia, Washington. I'll have 3 chances to qualify there for USA indoors (12/5, 1/30, 2/21). The running events will be outdoors. Hurdle touchdown times on 36's currenty indicate 8.2-8.5 60mh pace. Race goal was sub 8.5, so thats encouraging. How do I realistically progress to 42s in the next couple months? I've never had a hurdle specific training block, will running enough reps on the 36s and 39s really prepare me for the bigger sticks? I'm in a lot of unfamiliar territory.
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 10-01-2015 at 12:21 PM.

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