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Thread: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

  1. #21
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Take myself as an example
    By the time 1988 passed and CF wanted to deal with track again I was 26 years old.
    I had a strong athletic background and no major injuries. Both facts were extremely helpful but that's a late start.
    I had already been a top jr, one provincial champs and ranked in the country long before meeting CF. but I never training properly with anyone until then.
    According to CF, I lacked the specific training background of progressive , speed endurance runs before , during and once puberty ended.
    Charlie felt my results in SE runs was not nearly as good as my speed and acceleration . Plus , I was strong and could get strong but it was tough hanging onto the strength long enough while staying fast and mobile and loose.
    Who really knows for sure and does it really matter? No.

    Ben ( potentially) represents an example where method meets some amount of talent.( yeah, I know that sounds ridiculous but initially CF did not feel Ben was the giant talent of the group). Charlie felt that Tony Sharpe, ( pre screwing up his Achilles by slipping on ice)was on his way to bigger things as was Ben's brother ( charlie felt he had more raw talent) as well as Desai. The rest is history but one things Ben had going for himself is the entire development from young age until Olympic Gold.

  2. #22
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Ange, do you think there is also a training benefit to the multiple accelerations required with split runs?

  3. #23
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by wermouth View Post
    I think for coaches is good to know what is actually happening in your body while running in the specific area. Sure all the important qualities should be developed through the whole year (ish). I think understanding of the subject re: energy system (physiology) is very important. So my answer is yes! I do care where the energy is coming from.
    More information is always better. The more you learn , the more you can learn and the more you understand the more you can go deeper into other areas. The advantage of having larger training groups ( but not too large) and having method, is you can test and see how people respond. Then you can see who falls into what category and if you see issues with your athletes, how you might go about to solve these issues.

    I always felt Charlie was one of the most positive people I had ever met. Some felt he was cynical. He was about some things but with regards to the things he knew for sure, his approach was he was starting with blank slate , something to try and learn and he never gave up. His dad grew up in a very affluent family and became a very talented artist. His father never really worked full time for various reasons but was extremely talented , worked with limited money and produced one of a kind art that was museum quality. Charlie grew up seeing what was possible from very little and he sited these aspects of his growing up as influential. ( this , at least, has been my understanding of how he felt about his beginnings).

  4. #24
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarcho1 View Post
    There's mention of Marion Jones's training in one of the videos where Charlie Francis discussed it as Modified short to long..... she did 90s in sets of 3 I think? 3 by 3 ..... I don't know if there was an accel limit or not. But that was in north Carolina , which isn't as hot as the southwest, but I've lived there and it's pretty mild in the winter. Maybe it could have been longer runs, maybe the athletes wouldn't like them that far - 90 meters

    Sprinters are biased in their personalities when it comes to anything long, at least I've found. They think anything over around 100m =punishment. I think there's a psychological aspect to training that's seldom spoken amongst coaches, but athletes have to like the way you train em'. I think the mindset of many sprinters is to prefer stuff like 60m reps. They stay interested that way. This is not absolute, but I really believe personality dictates how athletes "like" or "dislike" it, and that blends into how much effort they give. I haven't found a sprinter yet begging me to throw in 150s or 200s. So I'd say the 60's or 90's seem like more "fun" to sprinters. That's just my experience.
    Just something I remember, but Marion Jones was used to doing longer runs, and I believe CF kept a 500m run in there on a weekly basis at least temporarily.

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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post

    I always felt Charlie was one of the most positive people I had ever met. Some felt he was cynical. He was about some things but with regards to the things he knew for sure, his approach was he was starting with blank slate , something to try and learn and he never gave up. His dad grew up in a very affluent family and became a very talented artist. His father never really worked full time for various reasons but was extremely talented , worked with limited money and produced one of a kind art that was museum quality. Charlie grew up seeing what was possible from very little and he sited these aspects of his growing up as influential. ( this , at least, has been my understanding of how he felt about his beginnings).

    I love hearing about stuff like this. I would love to read a book about stuff like this on Charlie. About his family and background and all that jazz. It helps you to see the man behind the master, and the influences (even seemingly irrelevant or trivial things) have over their successes.

  6. #26
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Slow View Post
    Just something I remember, but Marion Jones was used to doing longer runs, and I believe CF kept a 500m run in there on a weekly basis at least temporarily.
    Charlie emphasized that the more advanced athletes are, the less you should change their training. You have to make marginal changes that you think will have the greatest impact.

  7. #27
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    More information is always better. The more you learn , the more you can learn and the more you understand the more you can go deeper into other areas. The advantage of having larger training groups ( but not too large) and having method, is you can test and see how people respond. Then you can see who falls into what category and if you see issues with your athletes, how you might go about to solve these issues.

    I always felt Charlie was one of the most positive people I had ever met. Some felt he was cynical. He was about some things but with regards to the things he knew for sure, his approach was he was starting with blank slate , something to try and learn and he never gave up. His dad grew up in a very affluent family and became a very talented artist. His father never really worked full time for various reasons but was extremely talented , worked with limited money and produced one of a kind art that was museum quality. Charlie grew up seeing what was possible from very little and he sited these aspects of his growing up as influential. ( this , at least, has been my understanding of how he felt about his beginnings).
    So True. This is why leaders in any particular field (Track in this case) tend to leave almost everyone behind b/c they draw from their years/decades of exp., go wide (many fields) AND deep into the fields. So when coaching someone they are truly in the present with a blank slate.
    This allows creativity to flourish. In CFs case...he also had a Dad that was an Artist! Not fair lol

  8. #28
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    He also had Mach who came over from a place that had so much to CA that had so very little...Make the most of it. No excuses!

  9. #29
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Ange, do you think there is also a training benefit to the multiple accelerations required with split runs?
    Flash, Certainly there is a training benefit to the multiple accelerations with split runs. This was one of the primary reasons I understood Charlie wanted me to do these runs. I was very efficient and fast in my acceleration up to 10 meters. What I needed to work on was the other part which takes more time to develop. Maybe we would have done things a bit differently had we been outside 100 percent of the time but this was not the case nor would it ever have been the case with any of the athletes charlie worked with. You see, I could not run the longer runs fast enough to make it worth my while. By doing the split runs, all of a sudden it becomes more interesting. REmember too, the cost then goes up as well. 1 x or 2 x or 4 x the accelerations in a split run is VERY different than one run with one acceleration.
    I totally understand how everyone is looking to find a pattern and formula with Charlie's training. THere is a formula but there are many rules and or exceptions and ideas that need to be applied and understood. I know you understand this already Flash but I am speaking to a wider audience hopefully.
    Let's look at something that has recently got me irritated.
    The warm up.
    Charlie's general rule was to do as much training ESPECIALLY the warm up on grass.
    I recently went to watch a training session of someone I have been helping for years. He is now at a very serious school with the best facilities anywhere.
    THE ENTIRE WARMUP WAS DONE ON THE TRACK.
    I wanted to die.
    But there is nothing for me to do.
    Coach the coaches. Coach those who wish to learn and listen.
    Charlie wanted for others what he did not have for himself.
    NO SCAR TISSUE.
    PROPER TRAINING
    THERAPY.
    TRAINING THAT HAS METHOD WITH EXPECTED RETURNS.
    I hope I answered your question.

    BTW. Very cool news. I have been contacted to have one of the books here used as a required text for university. Charlie would have thought that was pretty cool.

  10. #30
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    Re: SPP1 Question on SE alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    You see, I could not run the longer runs fast enough to make it worth my while. By doing the split runs, all of a sudden it becomes more interesting.
    That's a very interesting point. Yet one more variable to add to the mix.

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