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Thread: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

  1. #1
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    Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    Most of the people who still log on here are probably familiar with me. I'm not going to write a paragraph of details as I already have written a journal on here, but basically I'm a 100-200, 22 y/o sprinter who has sub-11 goals and has ran low 11 and sub-23 before. Been trying to go S-L but I guess I'm just not doing it correctly. I couldn't handle the split 60 workouts as it simply is just too many accels for me to handle (for example, a 3x3x60 workout would be 9 starts and would trash me to the point of having no quality. I have tried these and that's why I preferred to do the 2x2x150 or 2x2x200 I mention here). I just don't know how to progress myself, and it's just hard training alone since my 60m runs volumes are probably too low (since I train alone my training times aren't going to ever be much over 95%, so I guess I could add volume? To like 6x60? I don't know. I wouldn't even know how to progress, what rests to use. That's for you experts to figure out though... I just want someone to help design me a program so that I can get back to sub-23 by the end of spring. Thanks..


    Anyhow, what I have been doing up to this point was:

    Monday:
    3-5x flys (5-7min rest)
    3-5x short starts (5min)
    3-4x 60 (10min)

    Wed:
    For about a month, I was doing 2x2x150 and then after 2-3 weeks of those I went to 2x2x200 workouts with 3-5min/reps and then full recovery/sets
    Then this past month in prep for a meet I have done speed endurance ladders like this
    1x80, 1x100, 1x120,1x150, 1x200 full recoveries
    (I understand this is a mistake for me right now since I was not ready for such)

    Friday: Similar to Monday
    2-3x flys (5-7min)
    4-5x short starts (5min)
    2-3x60 (10min)


    I just ran 24.1 lol. Poopy. When I used to run 23.1 easily in high school off a program with little speed (linear classic L-S).

    I do realize I will probably shave off a bunch my next race as this is my first race, because of training alone, but again, here are my main concerns:
    1. Should I increase the volume of 60m runs since I am pretty sure I could handle 6x60?
    2. What rest should I use? And how should I go about progressing?
    3. I just can't figure out what to do on my Wednesday workout. Should I stick with special endurance workouts like the 2x2x150/200 workouts or should I go even longer to like 300s? And how would I set up a progression for that in volume and rest?
    4. Or maybe I should go into something completely different.

    If anyone wants to design a training program for me, I'm willing to do anything. Who knows, maybe I just need to go linearly again. That would suck, since I do enjoy the recovery you get from a three day HI-Low schedule.

    Maybe my special endurance isn't enough on a weekly basis, due to max v and speed on Mon/Fri and my only 'long' session being on Wed.

    Maybe I need to do special endurance on Friday as well?

    I just have no idea how to progress myself.

    I don't care if you completely rework my training program

  2. #2
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    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post

    Monday:
    3-5x flys (5-7min rest)
    3-5x short starts (5min)
    3-4x 60 (10min)

    Wed:
    For about a month, I was doing 2x2x150 and then after 2-3 weeks of those I went to 2x2x200 workouts with 3-5min/reps and then full recovery/sets
    Then this past month in prep for a meet I have done speed endurance ladders like this
    1x80, 1x100, 1x120,1x150, 1x200 full recoveries
    (I understand this is a mistake for me right now since I was not ready for such)

    Friday: Similar to Monday
    2-3x flys (5-7min)
    4-5x short starts (5min)
    2-3x60 (10min)
    Re: Mondays/ Fridays is that the order of your workout fly, acc, 60s?
    Re: Wed how fast those 150s/200m were?

    I can say that we are doing similar Wednesdays, we have started with 2/3x 120,100,80 through 2x150s 1x120,100,80, 2x150 and now we are doing 2/3x2x150s everything with walking back recoveries between reps and 10/12min. between sets. (Have to compress the recoveries time to time due to cold weather)

  3. #3
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    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    Quote Originally Posted by wermouth View Post
    Re: Mondays/ Fridays is that the order of your workout fly, acc, 60s?
    Re: Wed how fast those 150s/200m were?

    I can say that we are doing similar Wednesdays, we have started with 2/3x 120,100,80 through 2x150s 1x120,100,80, 2x150 and now we are doing 2/3x2x150s everything with walking back recoveries between reps and 10/12min. between sets. (Have to compress the recoveries time to time due to cold weather)

    1. Yes, that is the order. I feel like the flys help me get loose and add to the warm up, making the proceeding times better.
    2. 150s were at about 18.5-19.0, and 200s were at about 24.8-25.1. I just ran a 24. So basically, they were still at about only 3% slower than max or so, 97%, which is pretty high. Which leads me to question and say I should add more volume or change recoveries. Why? Often, on the second set of my 2x2x150 or 200 workouts, I would run faster on the first rep of the SECOND set. So I'm sure 3 wouldn't be excessive. Still, I question how much that will help me improve. I've done quite a bit of fly work obviously, and still lacking top speed. Maybe fitness is limiting this though?

    So maybe one of my problems is too long of recoveries? That and it seems I should increase the volume a little bit for sure.

    Overall wermouth, even though I have read a lot, I still cannot figure out how to periodize weekly volumes. How and when to increase volume (along with adjusting rest), and when to decrease it. I've watched inside the SPP and it still doesn't provide the "formula" for volume X intensity.

    I understand the general concepts. I just need actual numbers and plans to work with. If you have the time to make me a plan that would be so nice, if not that's okay too.

  4. #4

    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    I don't think there's anything majorly wrong with your program. How is your overall health? Are you sleeping enough? Is your diet ok? Are you stressed?

  5. #5
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    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin1 View Post
    I don't think there's anything majorly wrong with your program. How is your overall health? Are you sleeping enough? Is your diet ok? Are you stressed?
    Honestly, my diet and sleep are better than ever!

    ...So I'm thinking I need to increase the volume slightly. At the same time, I don't know where to go from where I am though. Maybe mix things up with FEF?


    Do you have a program you feel works well (for someone who trains alone)?

  6. #6
    Member DMA's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    How about dropping to 2 hi days, and 2 low days. Drop volume a little as well and see how that goes.
    Continuing to learn is one thing in life that has to continue.

  7. #7
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    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    Again though, I am only sprinting PAST 60m only ONCE per week, and not over 200 at all. Is that maybe a limiting factor to my fitness? Would it be beneficial for an athlete of my level to run past 200m?

  8. #8
    Member DMA's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    Session 1 - Short Speed (acceleration and/or max speed)
    Session 2 - Extensive Tempo
    Day off
    Session 3 - Long Speed (Special Endurance)
    Session 4 - Extensive Tempo

    Session 3 could start off with the split runs and move out to 2 x 250-300 for instance.

    What fitness do you think you are missing? I had an athlete pb in the 200 and furthest he has ran in training is a 150 (he has time trialed 300 twice since April though). He is as fast as you, but principles still should work.
    Continuing to learn is one thing in life that has to continue.

  9. #9
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    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    1. Yes, that is the order. I feel like the flys help me get loose and add to the warm up, making the proceeding times better.
    2. 150s were at about 18.5-19.0, and 200s were at about 24.8-25.1. I just ran a 24. So basically, they were still at about only 3% slower than max or so, 97%, which is pretty high. Which leads me to question and say I should add more volume or change recoveries. Why? Often, on the second set of my 2x2x150 or 200 workouts, I would run faster on the first rep of the SECOND set. So I'm sure 3 wouldn't be excessive. Still, I question how much that will help me improve. I've done quite a bit of fly work obviously, and still lacking top speed. Maybe fitness is limiting this though?

    So maybe one of my problems is too long of recoveries? That and it seems I should increase the volume a little bit for sure.

    Overall wermouth, even though I have read a lot, I still cannot figure out how to periodize weekly volumes. How and when to increase volume (along with adjusting rest), and when to decrease it. I've watched inside the SPP and it still doesn't provide the "formula" for volume X intensity.

    I understand the general concepts. I just need actual numbers and plans to work with. If you have the time to make me a plan that would be so nice, if not that's okay too.
    In my opinion you should always feel how fast you are going, being relaxed at the same time. Every athlete is different my thought is that you could be going little bit too fast in those 200 during your sessions. They need to be smooth and equally well executed re: time and technique.

    I don't think that extra volume will change anything except extra stress, it's to late to add an extra volume and mess with it you are too close to comps unless you want to drop it.

    You are doing 2x2x150 that's 600m, 2x2x200 that's 800m why don't you keep the volume the same 600m and do 3x200 or just stay with your 2x2x150 the time 19sec. is with a SE I frame time on top of that they will feel better and look better then 200s or go with full recoveries you could go potentially faster.

    Re: your 3-5min recoveries between reps, my understanding is that the quality you are training will influence the recovery time. Why you are doing those 150/200s for? Lactate tolerance, SE or other.
    I don't see the point of going 5min. The reason why is because lactate is starting to drop off in about 2'30''/3' after the run. So my approach is as the same as to the HI Lo days, we are having incomplete recoveries around 3min. or we are having full recovery, unless there is weather factor which might force us to change it so we have to compress the full rec. to about max 12min.

    Re: Formula you are talking about is there, consistency with highest possible quality is the key, that's apply to every athlete, having said that. Every athlete is different (keep repeating myself) therefore volume, distance, emphasize of the workout needs to be adjust individually.
    I don't know how to help you, try different things eg. change the order on Monday, maybe try to do just acc on Friday up to 40m, maybe keep Wednesday the same.

    It is bit late, I apologise if I don't make sense. I'll try to do better sometimes soon.

    Hope other guys can contribute to this discussion.
    Last edited by wermouth; 12-06-2014 at 09:26 PM.

  10. #10

    Re: Anyone want to design me an effective training program?

    Quote Originally Posted by DMA View Post
    Session 1 - Short Speed (acceleration and/or max speed)
    Session 2 - Extensive Tempo
    Day off
    Session 3 - Long Speed (Special Endurance)
    Session 4 - Extensive Tempo

    Session 3 could start off with the split runs and move out to 2 x 250-300 for instance.

    What fitness do you think you are missing? I had an athlete pb in the 200 and furthest he has ran in training is a 150 (he has time trialed 300 twice since April though). He is as fast as you, but principles still should work.
    I agree with the above set up, 1 x day of speed/ acceleration of 2 x 3 x 30m and 2-4 x 60m all with full rec ie 5-10 mins
    and 1 x day of speed endurance of 4 x 30m starts followed by 2 x 150m SE with 15-20 mins rec.
    Then two extensive tempo days of approx. 2-2.4 km

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