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Thread: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

  1. #11
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Another thought, maybe a question, but anyhow, you know how you're acceleration is greater in the beginning? (ex. - greater velocity change from 0-10m compared to 10-20, and it levels off eventually) Well my question is, would it be more important therefore to gradually move out the accel limits the shorter they are? For example, 10 to 15, then to 20, 25, to 30? Versus 10, 20, 30, yunno? And since the velocity changes less during 30-40 and 40-50, would that imply you don't need to do 35m, 45m accel limits and just go by the 10m segments at that point? You get what I'm wondering about?
    I think thats a good idea. I'd experiment with it. Even within the workout itself.

  2. #12
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    So I did 3x4x60 (20) yesterday with 1.5/5' rest. Well the first 2 sets went well, by the 3rd set I had to increase my rest to finish it decently. So I'm thinking more like 2'/6-7'. Volume seemed sensible. After I adapt, I'll do 4x3x60 instead since there will be more rest with that, making quality higher. Go back to 3x4 for the deload, then move on.

  3. #13
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    i think you know what you are doing.

  4. #14
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    I really feel like I have a good grasp for the general concepts, but I just overthink things when it comes to specific workouts and actual planning.

  5. #15
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    Up until November, would this work? (these are 2x in a week, so 16 sessions total)

    Week 1: 3x4x60 (20) 2'/6' RI
    Week 2: 4x3x60 (20) 2'/6' RI
    Week 3: 4x3x60 (25) ***increase rest
    Week 4: 3x4x60 (25) DELOAD - decrease rest

    October

    Week 5: 3x3x60 (30) ***increase rest
    Week 6: 2x4x60 (35) ***increase rest
    Week 7: 3x2x60 (40) ***increase rest
    Week 8: 2x3x60 (40) DELOAD - decrease rest


    OR should I do something closer to this? Since above, there appears to be a lack of work at 30 (only 2 sessions there)
    (in sessions, weeks separated by a space. These are still 60m splits, i just wrote the accel limit in there for the sake of convenience obviously)

    1. 3x4x20
    2. 3x4x20

    3. 4x3x20
    4. 3x4x25 ***increase rest

    5 4x3x25
    6 3x3x30 ***increase rest

    7 DELOAD 3x3x30 decrease rest
    8 DELOAD 3x3x30

    9. 2x4x30 ***increase rest
    10. 2x4x30

    11. 2x3-4x35 ***increase rest
    12. 2x3-4x35

    13. 3x2x40 ***increase rest
    14. 3x2x40

    15. DELOAD 2x3x40 decrease rest
    16. DELOAD 2x3x40

    Leading into November. The main difference being I get a lot more work in at 30 on the latter. Thoughts???

  6. #16
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    I like the ones with the intesifications out to 50m to 60m that you had in the orig thread. Even if you can't accel to 60, which you probably can't, you can probably get up to 50 or close. If you want to stimulate max velocity at some point you need to try to accel past 40, even if its near the later prep period. Obviously if you can't, then stop trying, but at 11.2 i wouldnt think you arent red-lining at 40. But that's a guess. Youre the guy on the ground.

  7. #17
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Up until November, would this work? (these are 2x in a week, so 16 sessions total)

    Week 1: 3x4x60 (20) 2'/6' RI
    Week 2: 4x3x60 (20) 2'/6' RI
    Week 3: 4x3x60 (25) ***increase rest
    Week 4: 3x4x60 (25) DELOAD - decrease rest

    October

    Week 5: 3x3x60 (30) ***increase rest
    Week 6: 2x4x60 (35) ***increase rest
    Week 7: 3x2x60 (40) ***increase rest
    Week 8: 2x3x60 (40) DELOAD - decrease rest


    OR should I do something closer to this? Since above, there appears to be a lack of work at 30 (only 2 sessions there)
    (in sessions, weeks separated by a space. These are still 60m splits, i just wrote the accel limit in there for the sake of convenience obviously)

    1. 3x4x20
    2. 3x4x20

    3. 4x3x20
    4. 3x4x25 ***increase rest

    5 4x3x25
    6 3x3x30 ***increase rest

    7 DELOAD 3x3x30 decrease rest
    8 DELOAD 3x3x30

    9. 2x4x30 ***increase rest
    10. 2x4x30

    11. 2x3-4x35 ***increase rest
    12. 2x3-4x35

    13. 3x2x40 ***increase rest
    14. 3x2x40

    15. DELOAD 2x3x40 decrease rest
    16. DELOAD 2x3x40

    Leading into November. The main difference being I get a lot more work in at 30 on the latter. Thoughts???
    Hey Brett,

    You have received some excellent insight from Wermouth and Stikki here. Since you don't have a background in going Short to Long, I would suggest sticking at 3x3. That way at least you're cutting out what is likely the worst quality rep, and are getting a rest between sets.

    The other thing you need to be aware of is that it's VERY easy to fall into the trap that most inexperienced coaches fall into- wanting to have the "perfect program." Endless hours will be spent tweaking the progression of workouts, and often the biomechanical positions being hit are subpar and don't receive 1/10th the attention. Make no mistake- running a short to long program means you need to be a stickler for technique. Reading back over Charlie's work repeatedly over the years showed me that he everything he did was quality.

    Having a program that is relatively high in specific work is a problem if the mechanics you are practicing are compromised. I know this because I have made this mistake (I just couldn't see mechanical flaws early on for the life of me), and have seen countless other coaches make this error.

    You were smart to catch on to the acceleration limits being too far out for someone at your current speed. Instead, starting at 15, then 17.5, 20, 22.5, 25 may be a wise progression.

    You may wish to consider loading some video of your first 10m, 20m, 30m, and max V phases.
    Last edited by T-Slow; 09-03-2014 at 12:51 PM.

  8. #18
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Slow View Post
    Hey Brett,

    You have received some excellent insight from Wermouth and Stikki here. Since you don't have a background in going Short to Long, I would suggest sticking at 3x3. That way at least you're cutting out what is likely the worst quality rep, and are getting a rest between sets.

    The other thing you need to be aware of is that it's VERY easy to fall into the trap that most inexperienced coaches fall into- wanting to have the "perfect program." Endless hours will be spent tweaking the progression of workouts, and often the biomechanical positions being hit are subpar and don't receive 1/10th the attention. Make no mistake- running a short to long program means you need to be a stickler for technique. Reading back over Charlie's work repeatedly over the years showed me that he everything he did was quality.

    Having a program that is relatively high in specific work is a problem if the mechanics you are practicing are compromised. I know this because I have made this mistake (I just couldn't see mechanical flaws early on for the life of me), and have seen countless other coaches make this error.

    You were smart to catch on to the acceleration limits being too far out for someone at your current speed. Instead, starting at 15, then 17.5, 20, 22.5, 25 may be a wise progression.

    You may wish to consider loading some video of your first 10m, 20m, 30m, and max V phases.
    Yeah honestly I do see how I've been overthinking it, I'm seeing it more and more. I think I'm just going to go recovery based as far as the progression goes and of course not "set in stone" any of my workouts or progressions. I'm just going to progress to the next steps when I feel like my body has adapted to the workout. I'll try and record some of my stuff too.

    So I get the SE split reps concept pretty well now I think, but what about EFE/FEF and flying (finish drill) progressions?
    I think starting with EFE, then progressing to FEF, then when the SE split has dropped down to 4x60 near the end, then I can include both some FEF and flys to make up for the lost volume as Charlie speaks of in Inside the SPP?

    One more question, how much further out should accels be compared to the SE split reps? For example, with a 15m intensity limit SE split reps should you be doing accels out to 20m at most? or should you go out further? When you're at 30m int. SE split reps, should you be out at 40m by then?

  9. #19
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarcho1 View Post
    I like the ones with the intesifications out to 50m to 60m that you had in the orig thread. Even if you can't accel to 60, which you probably can't, you can probably get up to 50 or close. If you want to stimulate max velocity at some point you need to try to accel past 40, even if its near the later prep period. Obviously if you can't, then stop trying, but at 11.2 i wouldnt think you arent red-lining at 40. But that's a guess. Youre the guy on the ground.
    I find that my absolute fastest 10m split in a 100m race is from 40-50m, top speed is my strength and so I probably reach it a tad bit later than other guys with the same time as me. I will be close to top speed from 30-40 for sure. But up to only 30 I feel like I'm just getting going, that's why I think it would be good for me to have full or near-full accels, 20m flys, and some 150s/200s SE during November in order to come out fast the first meet (first week of December).

  10. #20
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    Re: Indoor Training Plan - Please critique?

    I'm thinking about starting a separate thread for a training journal so some of you can see exactly what I'm doing.

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