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Thread: First outdoor meet of the year.

  1. #81

    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    Quote Originally Posted by hornblower View Post
    Plyos?

    What's the change in her lifting??
    She hasn't done any plyo's since mid-season.

    The change in her lifting was about 2 weeks before the State meet, I dropped her lifting to just a couple days of ***EDIT:>>>> UPPER<<<< body only lifting.

    One week ago she has returned to her lifting program.

  2. #82
    Member sady's Avatar
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    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    I wouldn't panic yet. The stretching on the way there would have been counter productive. From experience stretching has the same effect on muscles as training or time trials close to competition. Keep the faith.

  3. #83
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    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    Quote Originally Posted by rich121 View Post
    Hopefully her strength returns within a couple weeks for the USATF championships.
    This has her worried and K is wanting to move up to the 800m and modify her training for 400/800m.

    This has been something we have talked about over the past several years, but I wanted her to train shorter distance speed first, and she loves running the sprints.
    She is a more natural mid-distance runner though.
    In 8th grade not during track season and not in training, the track coach went out during lunch and timed K running the 600m to try and beat the school record, which K did, she ran 1:37.

    During 9th and 10th grade during the fall she ran cross country and did very well, on her varsity team placing 5th at State both years.
    But due to serious issues, and because it effected her shorter distance running, she stopped running cross country and wanted to concentrate on the sprints.
    Interesting, regarding the 600-800; however, as Charlie said don't throw the baby out with the bath water just yet. The continued exposure to alactic sprints will be vital for her development even if she doesn't end up specializing in the short sprints. The skeletal fiber conversion and cardiac adaptions necessary for high results in the 800 are a much more trainable shift than the alternative.

    Clearly I am biased towards "speed"; however, even the 800m titan David Lekuta Rudisha is ridiculously "fast" in that when he is in top form he's going out in sub 49.

  4. #84

    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    Including today, K has still been feeling fatigue, heavy legs, lethargic, light headed even to the point of almost fainting, flu-like sick feeling, all pretty much consistently on a daily basis since competing at the State Championships 3 weeks ago.

    On june 11, K went for a physical at her doctor and I asked for blood work to be done.
    After talking with her doctor, she agreed that K should see a sports orthopedic if the symptoms didn't get better soon, as I convinced her that 'normal' for a sedentary type person is not the same as 'normal' for an athlete.

    About a week ago I got a call from the lab technician, who told me everything was 'normal'.

    I went to K's doctor and got a copy of the blood work.

    I just wish I would have thought of this before...but I associated it with distance running... but now have found that especially females that do extensive training are susceptible to iron losses and if you are losing more than you are replacing, your body can only make up for it for so long, then there will be problems.

    In the summer of 2011, K, who was an incoming 9th grader, had been training with her new High School cross country team for about 2 months, when K had symptoms nearly identical as to what she is having now, just not nearly as severe.
    I took her to a doctor, had blood work done... and sure enough, she had a low Ferritin level of 21.
    After getting her on Proferrin ES iron 'food', and a steady diet of oysters, beef liver, spinach, beans & lentils and all washed down with orange juice (vitamin C increases the absorbency or iron) in about 3 or 4 weeks she was feeling great again.

    In early September of 2012, after a somewhat easy summer track season, and a late start of cross country due to medical and other issues, K had a physical and blood work done to make sure everything was ok.
    At this time, her Ferritin level was at 57, which is probably her 'normal', much, much higher than the 21 she had the previous year, and an indicator as to why K felt so good at that time in 2012.

    back to now, June 11, 2014... her Ferritin level is only 17, which is quite a bit lower than the 21 she had so many problems with in 2011...

    On all 3 blood tests, 'normal' Ferritin levels were expressed to be between 12 - 160 but most 'experts' I have read, say that with a female athlete, 'normal' Ferritin levels should be higher than 30, many say much higher.

    Actually, I am relieved, as this is something easily fixed...but it does take time...

    K will seeing her asthma/allergy doctor on Tuesday, I will still be making an appointment with the sports ortho tomorrow, all to make sure that nothing more is gong on.
    Hopefully, this is just a matter of low iron.

    There is a lot of info on the net about this subject, here is a short article:


    http://www.familydoctor.co.nz/condit...7&maincat=yes&

  5. #85
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    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    Quote Originally Posted by rich121 View Post
    Including today, K has still been feeling fatigue, heavy legs, lethargic, light headed even to the point of almost fainting, flu-like sick feeling, all pretty much consistently on a daily basis since competing at the State Championships 3 weeks ago.

    On june 11, K went for a physical at her doctor and I asked for blood work to be done.
    After talking with her doctor, she agreed that K should see a sports orthopedic if the symptoms didn't get better soon, as I convinced her that 'normal' for a sedentary type person is not the same as 'normal' for an athlete.

    About a week ago I got a call from the lab technician, who told me everything was 'normal'.

    I went to K's doctor and got a copy of the blood work.

    I just wish I would have thought of this before...but I associated it with distance running... but now have found that especially females that do extensive training are susceptible to iron losses and if you are losing more than you are replacing, your body can only make up for it for so long, then there will be problems.

    In the summer of 2011, K, who was an incoming 9th grader, had been training with her new High School cross country team for about 2 months, when K had symptoms nearly identical as to what she is having now, just not nearly as severe.
    I took her to a doctor, had blood work done... and sure enough, she had a low Ferritin level of 21.
    After getting her on Proferrin ES iron 'food', and a steady diet of oysters, beef liver, spinach, beans & lentils and all washed down with orange juice (vitamin C increases the absorbency or iron) in about 3 or 4 weeks she was feeling great again.

    In early September of 2012, after a somewhat easy summer track season, and a late start of cross country due to medical and other issues, K had a physical and blood work done to make sure everything was ok.
    At this time, her Ferritin level was at 57, which is probably her 'normal', much, much higher than the 21 she had the previous year, and an indicator as to why K felt so good at that time in 2012.

    back to now, June 11, 2014... her Ferritin level is only 17, which is quite a bit lower than the 21 she had so many problems with in 2011...

    On all 3 blood tests, 'normal' Ferritin levels were expressed to be between 12 - 160 but most 'experts' I have read, say that with a female athlete, 'normal' Ferritin levels should be higher than 30, many say much higher.

    Actually, I am relieved, as this is something easily fixed...but it does take time...

    K will seeing her asthma/allergy doctor on Tuesday, I will still be making an appointment with the sports ortho tomorrow, all to make sure that nothing more is gong on.
    Hopefully, this is just a matter of low iron.

    There is a lot of info on the net about this subject, here is a short article:


    http://www.familydoctor.co.nz/condit...7&maincat=yes&
    Did they also check vitamin D? Likely low as well. Hemaplex, found at Vitamin Shoppe, is one of the common brands pro distance runners I know take. It's about $10 a month. If they didn't test D, I would have her take it. I use Carlson drops found at Whole foods. I put it in the last bit of my water in the morning.

    I've had many girls with the same issues. I bug parents to get blood work, but sometimes doctors get in the way, and the families can't do wellness FX or inside tracker costs, which do not require doctor write up. I have a fine line issue as a coach recommending supplements to kids, as our state rules go into this. However, as a parent, I would get my daughters on iron, D, and calcium.

    Glad they resolved the issue. Iron supplementation takes time. To get her above 40 might take 6 or more weeks. I've had runners ferritin at 11, 13, and 14, and that was their response. They took the daily dose of hemaplex. It can be rough on the stomach so take it with a meal. I might recommend taking it 2x daily until she gets re-tested. In conversations with a few pro distance runners, rumors of some groups taking 2-4x daily amounts of iron have been common. However, they are also getting tested frequently.

  6. #86

    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    someone told me once that you shouldn't have calcium and iron together because the calcium interferes with iron absorpsion...

  7. #87

    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    Quote Originally Posted by ESTI View Post
    Did they also check vitamin D? Likely low as well. Hemaplex, found at Vitamin Shoppe, is one of the common brands pro distance runners I know take. It's about $10 a month. If they didn't test D, I would have her take it. I use Carlson drops found at Whole foods. I put it in the last bit of my water in the morning.

    I've had many girls with the same issues. I bug parents to get blood work, but sometimes doctors get in the way, and the families can't do wellness FX or inside tracker costs, which do not require doctor write up. I have a fine line issue as a coach recommending supplements to kids, as our state rules go into this. However, as a parent, I would get my daughters on iron, D, and calcium.

    Glad they resolved the issue. Iron supplementation takes time. To get her above 40 might take 6 or more weeks. I've had runners ferritin at 11, 13, and 14, and that was their response. They took the daily dose of hemaplex. It can be rough on the stomach so take it with a meal. I might recommend taking it 2x daily until she gets re-tested. In conversations with a few pro distance runners, rumors of some groups taking 2-4x daily amounts of iron have been common. However, they are also getting tested frequently.
    The best non-prescription iron supplement (actually, it's not classified as a supplement, it is a 'food') is Proferrin. It is the only supplement, other than injections and IV, that will build up iron in the blood in a matter of weeks, instead of months.
    K used this the first time she had this issue in 2011 and in a matter of 3 to 4 weeks she was feeling back to normal.

    Low levels of Vit. D, Magnesium and B12 all go hand in hand with low iron and levels of these should also be ordered in the blood workup.

    As for resolving the problem, that is not 'for sure' yet, as she is still seeing a couple more doctors just to make sure there are not more issues at hand.
    She sees her asthma/allergist today and this morning I will be making an appointment with the sports orthopedic/Family med. doctor.
    This happened so sudden, that there very well could be other issues that caused the drop in iron or that that is just a symptom of something else.

    Yes, it is very frustrating dealing with doctors who are 'by the book' and don't understand that a 'number' is not universal, especially when most of the numbers are at the lower end or bottom of a scale and other factors play a huge role.
    They can be very closed minded.

  8. #88

    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    Quote Originally Posted by hornblower View Post
    someone told me once that you shouldn't have calcium and iron together because the calcium interferes with iron absorpsion...
    Yes, calcium is an inhibitor in the absorption of iron, also:

    http://www.irondisorders.org/diet/

    From the list it is surprising to see that Spinach, which is commonly known for it's iron, but, because of the oxalates contained in the spinach, the iron cannot be absorbed. Also from the website, all the other foods that are in themselves healthy, but are also absorption inhibitors.

    In the past and now when K ate foods specifically for the iron, she did not eat anything that was a 'inhibitor' for at least 2 hours before/after eating the iron rich food.
    She would drink orange juice with each meal, as the vit. C contained increases iron absorption.
    It is also important to be careful when purchasing orange juice for this purpose, as much of it sold has been supplemented with calcium....

  9. #89

    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    K's condition still the same.

    Seen allergy/asthma doctor, still waiting for referral for Sports doctor to go through......

    She has been quite frustrated and losing confidence.

    K kept pestering me about running the 800m. I told her if she did run it a couple times this summer, that she would still be doing her normal sprint training, that her medical issue is just temporary.

    She went to a meet last night.

    K ran in the 100m and 800m.

    During the 100m, again, legs heavy, feeling weak, lethargic, no 'power'. She did not do well, and it was expected.

    She did not do bad in the 800m, especially considering her present issues and that she has not trained nor has ran the 800 since middle school... which was only 3 times.

    This gave K confidence again and excited her, as she said she just 'jogged' the first lap, and 'jogged faster' the second lap... she said it was hard to be patient and just pace the leader during the first lap, that she could easily have ran a much better time.

    Video of the 800m, K starts in lane #3, wearing white top/black shorts:


  10. #90
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    Re: First outdoor meet of the year.

    Impressed with what I saw in the video. Could be a true talent in the 8 with greater exposure to the event.

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