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Thread: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

  1. #11

    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by dreambig View Post
    The games are not like real games tho.. they are just pickup games in a small area (not even a real size soccer field) and I don't even sprint much cause it's crowded or not enough space. Lately I've been playing more intelligently trying to use more skill than my physical abilities. I've looked into Fartlek before but I feel like tempo work is sufficient for endurance. Can you comment on the speed sessions? Do you think I should combine acceleration work and flying sprints in one session or seperate them like I did giving each it's focus. Maybe I should do 1 acceleration and 1 flying sprint focused session per week as I progress?
    That's a hard question to answer you could use the combined method for 6 weeks and test or the single method over 6 weeks and test. To make results valid use a washout period between ( 1-2 wks of lower activity). Try and keep sleep diet and supplementation the same throughout. Concurrent training both acceleration/flying speed in the one session has not been researched in sport science. Studies on resistance and aerobic training (concurrent training) have shown mixed results. There is one study showing that elevated HR to 120-130 BPM increases strength however other studies show doing aerobic training prior to RT decreases strength.

    The order of combining flying work and acceleration would be important. If you did a high volume of acceleration work before flying work, there would a decrease in the quality of the flying work. For this reason it would be my preference to separate the sessions. Flying work involves acceleration so you’re working on both quantities simultaneously.

  2. #12
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    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharmer View Post
    That's a hard question to answer you could use the combined method for 6 weeks and test or the single method over 6 weeks and test. To make results valid use a washout period between ( 1-2 wks of lower activity). Try and keep sleep diet and supplementation the same throughout. Concurrent training both acceleration/flying speed in the one session has not been researched in sport science. Studies on resistance and aerobic training (concurrent training) have shown mixed results. There is one study showing that elevated HR to 120-130 BPM increases strength however other studies show doing aerobic training prior to RT decreases strength.

    The order of combining flying work and acceleration would be important. If you did a high volume of acceleration work before flying work, there would a decrease in the quality of the flying work. For this reason it would be my preference to separate the sessions. Flying work involves acceleration so you’re working on both quantities simultaneously.
    Yes that's true could you give me a sample speed routine of what would you do in my case and how you would progress?
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  3. #13

    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by dreambig View Post
    Yes that's true could you give me a sample speed routine of what would you do in my case and how you would progress?
    80m x 6 at maximal effort, 10 minutes recovery, twice a week for 8 weeks, after the 4th week add 1 repetition for the remaining 4 weeks, by week 8 80mx10.

  4. #14
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    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    I have no idea what your training background or work capacity is, so I'll suggest something very conservative as a starting point. If you're doing two speed workouts a week you could alternate between standard accel work and flying sprints.

    Day 1: Med ball accelerations x4-6, 6x10m, 2x20m
    Day 2: 2x(20+20+20, LHL), 2x(20+20+20, HLH), med ball throws x6-8

    Progress to:
    Day 1: 4x10m, 4x20m, 6x30m
    Day 2: 4x(10+10+20, LHL), 4x(10+10+20, HLH), med ball throws

    Alternatively, you could do day 1 as split runs with limited accelerations such 2-3x(4x10+30) and gradually extend the acceleration portion of each run while also increasing the rest interval between runs until you are accelerating the whole distance and you would be doing 2x4x30m.

    Just suggestions.

  5. #15
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    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharmer View Post
    80m x 6 at maximal effort, 10 minutes recovery, twice a week for 8 weeks, after the 4th week add 1 repetition for the remaining 4 weeks, by week 8 80mx10.
    Why would you do 80m sprints for soccer?
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  6. #16
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    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I have no idea what your training background or work capacity is, so I'll suggest something very conservative as a starting point. If you're doing two speed workouts a week you could alternate between standard accel work and flying sprints.

    Day 1: Med ball accelerations x4-6, 6x10m, 2x20m
    Day 2: 2x(20+20+20, LHL), 2x(20+20+20, HLH), med ball throws x6-8

    Progress to:
    Day 1: 4x10m, 4x20m, 6x30m
    Day 2: 4x(10+10+20, LHL), 4x(10+10+20, HLH), med ball throws

    Alternatively, you could do day 1 as split runs with limited accelerations such 2-3x(4x10+30) and gradually extend the acceleration portion of each run while also increasing the rest interval between runs until you are accelerating the whole distance and you would be doing 2x4x30m.

    Just suggestions.
    Nice suggestions. I have not been doing consistent sprint works recently so I need to start over again. If I am able to I will start with some hill work as these have helped me in the past and also help my shin/ lower leg problems. For the flying days do you think I could just do standard flying sprints with 30m buildup and start with 10m fly zone and progress to 15 or 20 maybe. And in the buildup zone I should go tempo speed and then go my fastest in the fly zone. I was suggested this because it is hard to run fast for a long period especially when you are starting a new off season. Maybe I should go a bit faster than tempo speed in the last 10m of my buildup zone and then hit it fast and stay relaxed on my fly zone? I have done flying sprints in the past and they probably should be enough work to help me get my gains from that type of workout. And your body should be upright when doing these sorts of sprints right? My main priority when doing sprint workouts is just to get faster. I don't really worry about the running patterns of the actual soccer game so I try to keep it simple. But your suggestion of LHL or HLH might be helpful and I was thinking for soccer as it mainly involves short acceleration bursts and is also about getting to your top speed the fastest then should I do drills or adjust my workouts so that I am able to get to my top speed as fast as I can? Are these LHL or HLH drills better at getting to your top speed faster than flying sprints and they involve the jogging/cruising stage and then accelerating and jogging again or vice versa which are common sprint patterns in a soccer match so would this help me more than just trying to get faster? I am just throwing out thoughts. And when I go from the low part to the high part in LHL or HLH am I leaning my body forward as I accelerate?
    Last edited by dreambig; 07-30-2013 at 08:45 PM.
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  7. #17
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    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    For LHL, HLH you're not jogging during the light or easy parts, you're simply holding your speed. The switch back and forth in effort helps to prevent the formation of a dynamic stereotype that can stagnate your progression. It's a way to trick the nervous system essentially. They're not top speed drills. They're more to develop acceleration.

    For top speed you would use the 20m flying sprint with an gradually increasing build up distance. The buildup gives you a little more distance to accelerate gently so that you're not burning all your energy overcoming resting inertia. This should allow you to apply more energy later in the acceleration curve which hopefully will allow you to achieve a higher top speed than if you did a maximum burn from a dead stop.

    There are TONS of old posts about flying sprints and in/out drills. Do not overcomplicate this stuff. Pick a few methods, try them out in small volumes and then go from there as you learn more and see how your body reacts. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Pick the simplest one you can do consistently and go from there. There are several approaches to use, don't try to incorporate all of them. Simple, simple, simple.

  8. #18
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    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    For LHL, HLH you're not jogging during the light or easy parts, you're simply holding your speed. The switch back and forth in effort helps to prevent the formation of a dynamic stereotype that can stagnate your progression. It's a way to trick the nervous system essentially. They're not top speed drills. They're more to develop acceleration.

    For top speed you would use the 20m flying sprint with an gradually increasing build up distance. The buildup gives you a little more distance to accelerate gently so that you're not burning all your energy overcoming resting inertia. This should allow you to apply more energy later in the acceleration curve which hopefully will allow you to achieve a higher top speed than if you did a maximum burn from a dead stop.

    There are TONS of old posts about flying sprints and in/out drills. Do not overcomplicate this stuff. Pick a few methods, try them out in small volumes and then go from there as you learn more and see how your body reacts. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Pick the simplest one you can do consistently and go from there. There are several approaches to use, don't try to incorporate all of them. Simple, simple, simple.
    Ah okay that makes more sense now. So in the EFE, what speed am I going in the first 20m? Just going a little fast and maintaining it? If these drills already help relaxation and maintaining high speeds then I don't see the need to do flying sprints on their own and these will also help acceleration which is the focus for my soccer speed. You said if were to do 2 sessions a week then alternate between acceleration and flying sprints right? But in day 2 you showed me in and out drills so that's why I thought these were to be done instead of flying sprints. Why do you suggest I start off with 20m distances for these drills? Is it more to get the technique down and condition myself more than anything else? And for progressing on my acceleration work should I eventually just progress to doing mainly reps of 30m sprints or will doing too much sprinting of one particular distance cause plateauing or cns fatigue?

    Btw do you guys think I should do acceleration with a short 5-10m jog or buildup as that is how you usually do it in a soccer game?
    Last edited by dreambig; 07-31-2013 at 02:35 AM.
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  9. #19

    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    Quote Originally Posted by dreambig View Post
    Why would you do 80m sprints for soccer?
    You can drop the distance back to 40 or 60. But use the same progression.

  10. #20
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    Re: Question on Structuring Training for Soccer

    Whenever you do a LHL in/out drill, the initial segment is an easy acceleration. When you hit the H segment, you accelerate hard and then hold whatever speed you reach for the last segment. The LHL and HLH drills are acceleration drills, not top speed drills. You're accelerating at maximum effort during the hard segments, but they're not long enough to reach top speed. In order to truly achieve top speed in a flying sprint you would need a 40-50m lead in.

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