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Thread: Soccer training question

  1. #21
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoluski View Post
    I think you are mixing things up. What Charlie suggests is obviously very fine, but it's there to be adjusted depending on your needs. The volume given for tempo is for professional players, from what I remember. But overall, tempo volume should be higher vs. a short/long sprinter, that's the point.

    If you are in doubt regarding intensity, keep it either very low or very high. Don't expect your body to dictate your mind -it's the other way around...

    Place those things first that are of priority depending on your plan. E.g., if speed is your number one priority for that day, do it first. If skill comes first, place it before tempo. In any case, technique should come first, generally speaking.

    On more practical matters, I think Angela was referring to your Saturday match and the need for a short warm-up in the morning of that day. Try this first and see how you feel on both weekend days. Then you decide.

    And stop being a bit lazy! (joke)
    Sounds awesome. So since I do soccer skill work in the beginning I am doing some aerobic fitness so can my tempo work be less? And for some parts of the tempo I think I should dribble the ball at around 70-75% percent intensity as well.

    Yes warming up in the morning prolly would be good. I'll try it.. maybe I'll go to my school and do some wall drills as well with the ball to keep my coordination and awareness of the ball sharp, but will keep in mind that it's a warm up. I'm going on vacation on Friday for a couple of days so when I return I will prioritize my training and be strict about it
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  2. #22

    Re: Soccer training question

    70-75% of what? Of your dribbling skill max or of your grass-speed max? Ha. Re-read that thread -I think there is a talk with regards to bringing the ball into your conditioning or not. It's probably up to you to make up your mind on this...
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

  3. #23
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoluski View Post
    70-75% of what? Of your dribbling skill max or of your grass-speed max? Ha. Re-read that thread -I think there is a talk with regards to bringing the ball into your conditioning or not. It's probably up to you to make up your mind on this...
    Skill training is a priority for me. Tbh I am already physically good enough to play the sport except my endurance but its my skill that lacks behind but if I can improve my speed and strength as well while I'm improving my skill it will make really stand up and help me take to the next level I believe. I meant 70-75% of grass speed max. If I am dribbling at my fastest would that still be 70-75% max of my sprint speed or what? I've read the thread many times but can't really find info about ball incorporation except duxx saying there are high and low cns soccer activities which I'm not sure I even learned from that thread I think it was from a different source (his soccerspecific powerpoint has it). He says dribbling is a low cns activity but I'm not sure if it is easy going dribbling or match speed dribbling.
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  4. #24

    Re: Soccer training question

    Only a stopwatch can tell you the intensity...

    OK then, there is a discussion with regards to whether conditioning training should be done with or without the ball. Both can work or has worked. This forum's opinion by those with some experience at the highest level was that conditioning would be better achieved without the ball. Search the forum as best as you can (via google, too).
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

  5. #25

    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoluski View Post
    Only a stopwatch can tell you the intensity...

    OK then, there is a discussion with regards to whether conditioning training should be done with or without the ball. Both can work or has worked. This forum's opinion by those with some experience at the highest level was that conditioning would be better achieved without the ball. Search the forum as best as you can (via google, too).
    Conditioning is better achieved without the ball for those at the highest level because they don't need the extra ball work. For those not at the highest level, if you can incorporate the ball into some of your conditioning, the extra touches will be helpful. Some conditioning should also probably be done without the ball.

  6. #26
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by python023 View Post
    Conditioning is better achieved without the ball for those at the highest level because they don't need the extra ball work. For those not at the highest level, if you can incorporate the ball into some of your conditioning, the extra touches will be helpful. Some conditioning should also probably be done without the ball.
    I think this is the best way. So guys again should my skill work and dribbling with the ball compromise my volume for the amount of tempo work I do? What I mean is doing those drills and stuff should not mean I do less tempo work right or what do you say?

    And so practicing free dribbling and cutting and turning can be done on tempo or light days as well then? Do I really need to worry about this?
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  7. #27
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Awesome replies everyone! Soccer chats on here are fantastic.

    Having prepared players from the high school level to play college, I can say for certain there needs to be an element that prepares you to do well on the coaches fitness test, whatever that may be. Nearly 20 college coaches my athletes played for always started fall off with some type of fitness test. This alone can separate you from the team being in top shape, as many of my players would set team fitness records as incoming freshman doing tempo.

    I would recommend reducing to 1 game weekly. I have timed my athletes in actual games (not pickup) and found most possessed the ball less than 90 seconds of a 90 minute game. To me, skill mastery is important, (as was stated previous). I would look to add skill training sessions where your quality and quantity of touches will far exceed those in a pick up game. I would also try to figure out how much fatigue a pick up game causes. My guess is not much.

    In the past during the summer, I have used this weekly set up with my players with long training history with me

    Monday: AM: Speed & wts PM: tempo
    Tuesday: AM: skill training (or practice): PM: tempo
    Wednesday: Speed & wts
    Thursday: Am: skills (or practice) PM Tempo
    Friday: Tempo:
    Sat: Game(s)
    Sun off

    Part of this was set up not ideally, but due to other issues. I also might replace Friday's tempo with the athlete's fitness test. I felt it was important at least every 2 weeks to test them so they can see the improvement and for them to get comfortable with the test. In many cases, athletes playing time was determined on their fitness test score so this was important to the ultimate goal (getting them playing time).

    For speed work days, I usually did 2-4 reps of resisted sprints (tires orsled, no hills around), did many medBall throws found in GPP, push up sprint variation (including visual reaction into sprints), and change of direction drills emphasizing technique mastery (placement of feet relating to hips etc), not just running around cones. Since they practiced and played 3 days a week, I figured this into their weekly schedule as "agility" days and felt no need to add this to workouts.

    Maybe Duxx can comment on his experiences, I never used balls for tempo work as I felt it was more kick and chase. I believe Duxx has developed some interesting ball drills.

  8. #28
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by ESTI View Post
    Awesome replies everyone! Soccer chats on here are fantastic.

    Having prepared players from the high school level to play college, I can say for certain there needs to be an element that prepares you to do well on the coaches fitness test, whatever that may be. Nearly 20 college coaches my athletes played for always started fall off with some type of fitness test. This alone can separate you from the team being in top shape, as many of my players would set team fitness records as incoming freshman doing tempo.

    I would recommend reducing to 1 game weekly. I have timed my athletes in actual games (not pickup) and found most possessed the ball less than 90 seconds of a 90 minute game. To me, skill mastery is important, (as was stated previous). I would look to add skill training sessions where your quality and quantity of touches will far exceed those in a pick up game. I would also try to figure out how much fatigue a pick up game causes. My guess is not much.

    In the past during the summer, I have used this weekly set up with my players with long training history with me

    Monday: AM: Speed & wts PM: tempo
    Tuesday: AM: skill training (or practice): PM: tempo
    Wednesday: Speed & wts
    Thursday: Am: skills (or practice) PM Tempo
    Friday: Tempo:
    Sat: Game(s)
    Sun off

    Part of this was set up not ideally, but due to other issues. I also might replace Friday's tempo with the athlete's fitness test. I felt it was important at least every 2 weeks to test them so they can see the improvement and for them to get comfortable with the test. In many cases, athletes playing time was determined on their fitness test score so this was important to the ultimate goal (getting them playing time).

    For speed work days, I usually did 2-4 reps of resisted sprints (tires orsled, no hills around), did many medBall throws found in GPP, push up sprint variation (including visual reaction into sprints), and change of direction drills emphasizing technique mastery (placement of feet relating to hips etc), not just running around cones. Since they practiced and played 3 days a week, I figured this into their weekly schedule as "agility" days and felt no need to add this to workouts.

    Maybe Duxx can comment on his experiences, I never used balls for tempo work as I felt it was more kick and chase. I believe Duxx has developed some interesting ball drills.
    You know this has always been a dilemma for me.. whether to decide to play an extra day or use it for recovery and have other quality training days alone where I can get more touches on the ball by training alone than with others. My pickup games depends but usually it is more intense nowdays than before, but I try to limit my running because I don't want to work myself out, but maybe if I go once a week then I can give my best and use the next day as recovery and there is nothing holding me back and I can go all out without worrying about recovering tomorrow as it will be a rest day tomorrow. It also depends on your condition as I haven't done any aerobic work so ofcourse it's gonna seem tiring to me, but once I get more fit the games are not gonna be as tiring, but that's good because I will be able to play with more intensity and improve as a player. It's not intense as a real match, but I will try to treat it as such so I can make it more realistic and improve myself.
    Also I've been wondering because at this age I think most of my development will come best if I played in game situations more so wouldn't playing both days actually help me with my positioning and awareness of the ball and spacing and working on my first touch to setup for a goal or when to pass or shoot..all those decisions that are critical to make you a better player. What do you say?

    I like your setup. So you don't do any skill training on Friday then? Just tempo? May I ask why? Is it okay to do skill training that day too? And for Monday you do speed and weights and tempo in the evening? How are your experiences with that? I don't have resistance sprints so hill running is my best option, but that is only available at my school, but if I go to my school then I don't think I will be able to use their field to do my soccer training as that is used for the school team athletes and plus it will be in the morning where school is going on, but I will be able to lift right after doing hills so doing speed and weights at the same time will work for me that day. My hill is really steep and around 12-15 yards I think. Doing 10 reps with 1 minute rest and then taking 3-5 minute rest and lifting would suffice I suppose? Or should I do 2 sets of that instead of 1? On the evening I can do skill/tempo work I guess? Could I focus on skill instead of tempo as that is more of a priority for my development as a player? What do you think?

    I've looked at alot of Duxx's stuff. His drills are related with training a team so it doesn't really help me .
    And what type of skill training or team practices did you conduct? Can you do stuff like dribbling up to a cone with speed and acclerating away as skill training on your lower intensity days? I suppose that's not that bad yeah.

    As for tempo work with the ball I'm still not sure because I don't know how going at that pace during a match will really help. Maybe it is better to do it without the ball and most of the running you do in the game is ofcourse without the ball as well so it makes sense. Maybe for 1/4 to 1/2 of the tempo work I can do it with dribbling a ball even if I am not going fast. Getting more touches will help me get better contact on the ball I suppose.

    Here's a thread I found duxx talked about tempo with ball
    http://www.charliefrancis.com/commun...empo-with-ball

    I guess I can do it for some parts and another question I had was how do I judge it is tempo speed? How do I know it is 70-75% of my grass speed that day? And while running with the ball my grass speed would be actually slower because I will always need to stop to take a touch and move the ball forward so my actual dribbling speed can be more high, but in comparison to the grass speed it could still be in tempo range? Like even if I'm going 80-85% of my full dribbling pace it might be still in the tempo range speed (75% of my max grass speed that day).

    Also for speed can you tell me more about change of direction drills as I know running around cones that are already marked won't really help you develop game agility. I think doing linear sprinting and doing ball drills with acceleration probably would take care of everything in my opinion but I'm open to see what you do for change of direction work. Also, for my speed days I also incorporate the ball in my sprints (e.g. sprint 10 yards w/o ball and turn and sprint back 10 yards with a ball) as I think it's important to practice going as fast as you can with the ball as well. Do you agree that I should also incorporate this in my speed days or is that unnecessary and I can do that type of stuff on my skill training days?
    Last edited by dreambig; 01-24-2013 at 10:03 PM.
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  9. #29

    Re: Soccer training question

    Some extra touches won't hurt you under the circumstances you describe, i.e., your level and basically being on your own. But stay focused on what you want to achieve overall as part of your preparation and/or on a certain day.

    Starting tempo with some touches and finishing the rest without the ball can work. If you feel you are behind and you need some good tempo workouts, leave the ball aside for that day(s). Tempo, according to the definition given by Charlie and for this forum, is at 70-75% of your maximum intensity on the same surface, i.e., grass in your case, I guess. If timing yourself on grass does not apply to you for whatever reason, you should finish your session in the same way you start it, if not slightly faster, considering you are 'warming up' in the first few reps. When in rhythm, count your steps for a certain distance and stay there, despite feeling you can/'should' go faster. Better safe than sorry. There is always the next day for assessment and adjustments, if/when needed (e.g., a speed or a game day can tell you that).

    As for speed, give more emphasis on your speed reserve and linear speed, extending from time to time the distance to more than just accelerations. Since proper team practices are missing at the moment, you could use an agility session, but this is not the same with acceleration/speed development as such.
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

  10. #30
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Following on from a point made above by dreambig, i've a question for the forum in general:-

    What are your thoughts with regards consecutive matchdays (In this case pickup games) when coaching developmental & young players?

    From my experience i've always promoted them and let players compete (within reason), several reasons behind this;

    - At this level there tends to be less involvement with play (measured as an interaction between the player, the ball or an opposing players possession of the ball) and more general aerobic/anaerobic movement patterns, generally resulting in less injuries and fatigue (as oppossed to consecutive matches at a senior level)

    - The need to develop greater communication and understanding of the game

    - The need to increase the quantity & experience of "actual" match situations

    - Extra development of specific playing positions:- positions are learnt quicker & mistakes are rectified sooner i.e a mistake made on the first day is fresh in the mind and is less likely to be repeated than if several days/ a week has passed before a similar situation repeats itself

    I wouldn't advise playing consecutive games if the player was playing at a higher level, feeling fatigued, carrying any injuries or was due to play another match within 4 days.

    Does anyone disagree with this philosophy - bearing in mind some of these young players could turn professional at 16 and be playing 3 full senior games per week and training in small sided games daily?

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