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Thread: Soccer training question

  1. #11

    Re: Soccer training question

    Where is your recovery day? Let's start from that...
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

  2. #12
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    Re: Soccer training question

    I play a forward/winger position that likes to play on the right side usually. As for me I just turned 18 and I've been playing soccer since I was nine. Technically, i am better at some things and I am not good at others. I am a decent dribbler and a passer and a shooter, but my ball trapping skill is not good. Since skill development takes such a long time to develop that is why I was thinking if I am physically better than others I will have an edge and I will continue on improving my skill work everyday, but it's hard to when you only have access to playing twice a week in pickup games. That is the only solution for now and doing drills on my own. Practicing against a wall does not really work out for me either because i will be at the park.

    I was thinking my recovery days would be those tempo days. Do you really need to fully rest once a week or that just broscience? Can't you adapt to having no full rest day if your diet and sleep is in check?
    But if recovery day is a must where you take a day off in a week.. Monday would probably be a good day to take an off day and treat some knocks I might have gotten in the 2 pickup games I played and let my body rest. Then Tuesday and Thursday try do speed and strength work along with high intensity soccer drills incorporated in the sprinting in the morning. Wednesday and Friday I can do less intense ballwork and tempo running, but I'm not sure about the distance. Would 2000-2500 be enough? I'm playing 2 days a week also. I am going to count running with the ball as part of my tempo work too or should I not do that? I was thinking maybe I should focus on technical drills in the beginning and then whatever I have left I will do some tempo and end the session but follow the general rule of not letting my speed slow down? Or should I just focus on making my technical skills of high quality daily (except my off day) and everything else is supplementary. I really am not sure how to set it up.
    I am also really concerned abut how much volume of work should I do so that I don't lead myself to overtrain again.

    Btw what is your guys opinion about all this cns needs recovery for you to train to your best ? From your experience how much of this is true cause whenever I play on weekends and I do nothing for the week and just go play on Saturday and Sunday (both days are intense, prolly not as intense as heavy lifting or sprinting but still), I usually play better on Sunday than Saturday. I have tried this before. I mean if your mind says you are recovered and your body can handle it do you still need to worry about if CNS recovery or whatever? Cause sometimes I feel like training is not all about science, there are too many variables in the real world. Thus, training is more art than anything else. For example, ever since as a kid guys like Raw Lewis trained every single day, but I suppose genetics play a part in that as well, but is htere something we can learn from that/ I'm just saying some ideas.. what do you guys think?
    Last edited by dreambig; 01-22-2013 at 11:53 PM.
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  3. #13

    Re: Soccer training question

    After weekend's matches, Monday would probably be a good day, yes.

    Check this thread out, if you haven't done already -it should be very informative to you.

    http://www.charliefrancis.com/commun...cis-and-soccer
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

  4. #14
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoluski View Post
    After weekend's matches, Monday would probably be a good day, yes.

    Check this thread out, if you haven't done already -it should be very informative to you.

    http://www.charliefrancis.com/commun...cis-and-soccer
    Originally Posted by duxx
    First off: Thanks for the reply Charlie! (great infor about speed reserve)

    Altought I agree with you almost completely and I had implemented/modified your system for my needs working with soccer players (hills, short-to-short, no or very small SE etc) I have couple of comments to put:
    1. It seems that you solve all problems with team athletes by prescribing tempo and speed, which is actually your sprinters do. Thus you basically copy the sprinters workouts to team athletes with little or no modification which I dislike. Please correct me if I am wrong here Charlie - not to critique you but to learn from you.

    2. We do not have off-season here as defined by westerns. We have a pause of 1month during the june, and we have a 20days break during the winter. Our preparatory period starts with team practices and thus I must implement speed/tempo/weigths/plyos into team practices and arrange with a head coaches and menagers. Thus western concept of off-season where you have athtletes free of team practice when they are able to do athletic/sprinter like training is of little use in Serbia (except maybe that 1 month, but during that time athletes goes home and their trining is not organized nor controled - its their year vacation).
    So how to modify tempo and speed in this situations?

    3. In my last post I was reffering to the research of Jens Bangsbo in which he demostrated that players who did performed SE training (mainly with a ball: 2on2 small sided duel games; hunting a ball; repeated shooting at the goal with a sprint around the cone) greatelly improved his 'field test' than players who didn't.
    Bangsbo states that: 'analysis of the matches has shown that the higher level of soccer, the more high-speed running is performed. The capacity to produce lactate and to repeately perform high-intensity excercise should therefore be specifically trained. This can be achieved trough speed endrance training'

    But tat the same time Bangsbo writes: 'However, it is recommended that this type of training is only used with top-class players, as the training is very demanding, both physically and mentally. When there is a limited amount of time aviable for training, time can be better utilized for other forms of training.'
    'Speed endurance training should have low priority and may be complitely omited for non-elite players'
    'Speed endurance training should not be used with players under 16 years of age.'

    The quotes are from 'Aerobic and anaerobic training in soccer' by Jens Bangsbo (2005/06) pp150-151.

    Looking forward to futher discussion!

    ( below was posted by Charlie Francis)
    You CAN'T copy the sprint program directly because the sprints have Special Endurance while the soccer does not, relying instead on short bursts. Additionally, soccer requires a larger aerobic component. for example short sprints might include 6000 to 6600 meters per week of tempo, 400m might include 9000 to 10,000 meters per week, while soccer might require approx 12,000 meters per week.
    As for moving to speed endurance training for the top athletes. this is directly in reverse of the direction seen with top level sprinters, where all general fitness avenues are exhausted, leaving more max speed as the only remaining means to better performance. Perhaps the testing is on those who are not totally aerobically fit (back to the bla discussion you pointed to earlier?)
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 01-23-2013 at 09:27 PM.

  5. #15
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Yes I've read these before.. but how can you do so much tempo work if you are playing 2 games in a row so it has to be reduced obviously and skill training should be done in the beginning and everything added to it in the end, but if I'm doing speed training (hill work) wouldn't it make sense to do hills first when you are fresh and skills later. same with lifting as can't you just do your strength training workout and practice 10-15 minutes against the wall after your lifts are done? It's not like I'm lifting to failure or get a pump or soreness in my legs.
    Last edited by dreambig; 01-23-2013 at 05:09 PM.
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  6. #16
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by dreambig View Post
    Also do I need to worry about elasticity to improve my agility or will I already get that from doing sprints, countermovement jumps, soccer drills and soccer games?
    Elasticity will come as a by product of how you train and what you do in your training.
    Are you able to feel how elastic your muscles are now? Are you able to notice when you are not as elastic?
    You mentioned feeling best on your Sunday games..., I am guessing you might be going into your game Saturday a bit flat? I wonder if you do a small warm up Saturday morning if this can be " fixed"? The idea with the warm up on game day would be breaking a sweat and adding a few light drills. Total duration would be less than a normal warm up.

  7. #17
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoluski View Post
    After weekend's matches, Monday would probably be a good day, yes.

    Check this thread out, if you haven't done already -it should be very informative to you.

    http://www.charliefrancis.com/commun...cis-and-soccer
    What an amazing thread. Thank you for posting this Nikolouski.

  8. #18
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Can dribbling fast be done on my tempo or "light days" as well? Can I not judge how my body and mind feels and train according to it? Like how would I even know if my cns was not optimal.. if you say to yourself you need rest or your cns is not recovered then your brain will think that way which will influence your body so I think changing your thinking and not being stressful can help you train more as well. Thoughts?
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  9. #19
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    Re: Soccer training question

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Elasticity will come as a by product of how you train and what you do in your training.
    Are you able to feel how elastic your muscles are now? Are you able to notice when you are not as elastic?
    You mentioned feeling best on your Sunday games..., I am guessing you might be going into your game Saturday a bit flat? I wonder if you do a small warm up Saturday morning if this can be " fixed"? The idea with the warm up on game day would be breaking a sweat and adding a few light drills. Total duration would be less than a normal warm up.
    Yes that makes sense I will just do my regular training and not worry about it then.

    You see I have been a bit lazy recently and only been playing weekend games and I have been busy with school work so I have had a hard time following a schedule of training, but will definitely start soon so once I start training regularly again with the ball I think that won't be a problem. My school is 5 minutes from my house and on the mornings of my weekend games would it be okay to do some wall drills and I guess it can be a sort of warm ups in the mornings of game days for me. How long should it last btw?
    I just want to be me. The best me that I can be.

  10. #20

    Re: Soccer training question

    I think you are mixing things up. What Charlie suggests is obviously very fine, but it's there to be adjusted depending on your needs. The volume given for tempo is for professional players, from what I remember. But overall, tempo volume should be higher vs. a short/long sprinter, that's the point.

    If you are in doubt regarding intensity, keep it either very low or very high. Don't expect your body to dictate your mind -it's the other way around...

    Place those things first that are of priority depending on your plan. E.g., if speed is your number one priority for that day, do it first. If skill comes first, place it before tempo. In any case, technique should come first, generally speaking.

    On more practical matters, I think Angela was referring to your Saturday match and the need for a short warm-up in the morning of that day. Try this first and see how you feel on both weekend days. Then you decide.

    And stop being a bit lazy! (joke)
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

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