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Thread: EMS Max Strength Journal

  1. #31
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    Why the switch to 6 hi days?
    This was all experimental. It was something that I wanted to try, I really wanted to put a lot of focus on getting strength levels up since he's pretty weak but didn't want to leave speed work out so I placed them on the days after weights (weights before speed in this case). The athlete never complains about feeling tired the day after workouts, etc. He also has no job and only takes 12 hours each semester.

  2. #32
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    Those are solid results...

    So, are you only doing 2 sets - one at 5% and 10%. I know Gayle Hatch lifters would up to 3 and 5rm then the second day they will do a percent off the previous session. With this system do you need to test for rep maxes OR using 85-86% of the 1rm for a 5rm etc?

    I asked about the pulls because I wasn't sure if the athlete wasn't able to do cleans/snatches or you had a reason for only doing pulls only.

    I'm curious why he did deadlifts in block 1 - maybe because it's easier on the legs when squatting for 10's etc?

    Any tempo work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ku2u#1 View Post
    So far, his 40yd time was 5.2x and now its 4.8x even though he still weighs 225 at 5'11. Squat has also gone up 30-40lbs, deadlift has gone up 20lbs, bench 5-10. He was very weak and we had put tons and tons of focus on speed work for months to maybe a year and we didn't really get anywhere.

    Here's an example. 305lb 5RM, then 5 x 95% (-5%) of 305lbs is 290lbs, then 5 x 90% of 305lbs is 275lbs. I used this during the 10's block as well.

    Regarding the pulls only: I just wanted to make sure we had a pull only day just like how the Bobsled document had done it. This was the only reason why. We do clean grip deadlift with straps btw.

    Deadlifts went well for 10's block 1. I can't recall him failing on any reps during the entire block. Also keep in mind that we didn't do any HI speed work during the most recent 10's block.

  3. #33
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    Those are solid results...

    So, are you only doing 2 sets - one at 5% and 10%. I know Gayle Hatch lifters would up to 3 and 5rm then the second day they will do a percent off the previous session. With this system do you need to test for rep maxes OR using 85-86% of the 1rm for a 5rm etc?

    I asked about the pulls because I wasn't sure if the athlete wasn't able to do cleans/snatches or you had a reason for only doing pulls only.

    I'm curious why he did deadlifts in block 1 - maybe because it's easier on the legs when squatting for 10's etc?

    Any tempo work?
    Thanks, I've been working with him for 2 years now and the gains have finally came around.

    The drop sets are only done for 3 sets. First being 5RM, second being 95% of 5RM, then third being 90% of 5RM. You would need to test for a specific 5RM but since I've been working with the athlete for quite a while, I already had a good idea on what his 5RM and 3RM should be. His 5RM was only 285lbs when we started btw. Now he's doing 325 ATG.

    With the clean pulls, we only did them because he sucked so badly with the catch at the time. My original plans were to have him do a 3RM on cleans first on Wednesdays, but there were days where he'd get 225lbs for a 3RM and days where he'd literally fail with 185lbs. So I just decided to focus on clean pulls so I could still keep a strength-speed component for him. I usually used 1.1 to 1.2x his max clean for clean pulls.

    I also don't really have a clue why he did DLs in the 10s block. I could ask him, but he's so busy that I doubt he respond to me.

    And no recent tempo or LI work. We have done plenty of tempo/GS work in the past but have hardly ever seen any benefits from it. I wanted to keep some in to help control body comp, but his times got much slower when we added it with his bodycomp staying the same. In the first year that I trained him, he was doing at least 1600m-2000m of tempo with GS circuits 2x per week.

  4. #34
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    Sorry - I'm still confused. The 5 and 10% are additional sets after the main work sets - how many sets are you doing before the 2 drop sets? When I have done RM type of workouts I have always used 85% for 5rm and 92.5 for 3rm - probably not perfect but close enough.

    I wouldn't be surprise if it wasn't the reason I listed above - your legs can take a beaten fast in a strength endurance block esp with the running etc.

    I'm surprise about the tempo - I guess tempo is for old folks. As I get older I'm starting to value tempo much more - I try not to look at the performance view but overall health benefits. I probably wouldn't have done that much - 1800-2000m per week is enough to get the job done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ku2u#1 View Post
    Thanks, I've been working with him for 2 years now and the gains have finally came around.

    The drop sets are only done for 3 sets. First being 5RM, second being 95% of 5RM, then third being 90% of 5RM. You would need to test for a specific 5RM but since I've been working with the athlete for quite a while, I already had a good idea on what his 5RM and 3RM should be. His 5RM was only 285lbs when we started btw. Now he's doing 325 ATG.

    With the clean pulls, we only did them because he sucked so badly with the catch at the time. My original plans were to have him do a 3RM on cleans first on Wednesdays, but there were days where he'd get 225lbs for a 3RM and days where he'd literally fail with 185lbs. So I just decided to focus on clean pulls so I could still keep a strength-speed component for him. I usually used 1.1 to 1.2x his max clean for clean pulls.

    I also don't really have a clue why he did DLs in the 10s block. I could ask him, but he's so busy that I doubt he respond to me.

    And no recent tempo or LI work. We have done plenty of tempo/GS work in the past but have hardly ever seen any benefits from it. I wanted to keep some in to help control body comp, but his times got much slower when we added it with his bodycomp staying the same. In the first year that I trained him, he was doing at least 1600m-2000m of tempo with GS circuits 2x per week.

  5. #35
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    I would be curious to what kind of 60/100m time a track guy could run off that bobsled program.

  6. #36
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    Sorry - I'm still confused. The 5 and 10% are additional sets after the main work sets - how many sets are you doing before the 2 drop sets? When I have done RM type of workouts I have always used 85% for 5rm and 92.5 for 3rm - probably not perfect but close enough.

    I wouldn't be surprise if it wasn't the reason I listed above - your legs can take a beaten fast in a strength endurance block esp with the running etc.

    I'm surprise about the tempo - I guess tempo is for old folks. As I get older I'm starting to value tempo much more - I try not to look at the performance view but overall health benefits. I probably wouldn't have done that much - 1800-2000m per week is enough to get the job done.
    No problem, I'll explain it better. There are three sets total, one set at 5RM, one set at 95% of 5RM, then one set at 90% of 5RM. Before the 5RM set, you do as many warm-up sets as needed. Any clearer? I suppose 85% and 92.5% would be safe enough numbers to use. It would probably be best start maybe even more submax in week 1 and then be really pushing it maximally by week 3. I myself have had good success in getting my numbers stronger in every lift with this scheme.

    As far as training in the 10's block goes. I think you're right on point, let me give you an example of my own experience regarding my back squat... After my second meet, I did a 10's block and worked up to doing 362lbs x 10 in week 4. I then unloaded and went into the 5's block and put 377lbs and failed to get 4 reps. Later that block I was able to get 377lbs x 5, but then didn't get any stronger after that. I then unloaded and went into the 3's block and couldn't even do 387lbs x 3. It was a total disaster that I really think was caused by going so hard in the 10's block lol. Keep in mind that I did have added stress that came into my life after the 10's block (school, work etc), not sure how big of a role it played. So far I'm doing everything I can for this not to happen with the athlete. This is how I've organized things with this setup so far.

    March: 10's block
    April: 5's block
    May: 3's block
    June: 5's block
    July: 3's block

    After this block I will test him again.


    I really don't think that the athlete has ever suffered from CNS fatigue, and he never gets stiff or sore from any of the work that we do. When we did Hi/Low days we were barely able to add any strength from what I remember. This played the biggest role in the deciscions that I made in modifying his training program. I'd also be curious to see how a track guy or higher level athlete would respond to this program. Back when I was still sprinting, speed work was so hard on my body and I always had issues with my mobility, etc. I'm not sure if I could've help up with this program if I did it back then lol.

  7. #37

    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    How old are your athletes?

  8. #38
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    1: Makes sense - total of 3 work sets. Is this what Dr. Stone does with his athletes? I would be curious how this setup would work for a speed/power athlete who has to run-throw-jump several times a week. It's a lot easier to get stronger when your primary stressor is weights only - do you think you would have had similar strength results if you were sprinting-jumping-throwing several days a week?

    2: Are you planning on rotating any power blocks into the mix?

    3:I think you have a point - when I have done tempo before upper weights I notice a "SLIGHT" drop in strength vs when I do weights before tempo. If I wanted to focus on lower body strength while sprinting I'll probably lean towards Mon: speed and ub wts, Tue: Lb weights, Wed: Tempo 1000m. I'm not surprise that this athlete had issues with the strength/tempo combo esp considering his background and overall numbers - maybe at some you can put tempo back in starting at 600yds and slowing increasing. You can get away with low tempo volume and still increase general fitness with longer warmups etc. Most people have issues with tempo because they are doing too much volume, running tempo too fast, shitty running surfaces, or maybe it's the speed/power component.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ku2u#1 View Post
    No problem, I'll explain it better. There are three sets total, one set at 5RM, one set at 95% of 5RM, then one set at 90% of 5RM. Before the 5RM set, you do as many warm-up sets as needed. Any clearer? I suppose 85% and 92.5% would be safe enough numbers to use. It would probably be best start maybe even more submax in week 1 and then be really pushing it maximally by week 3. I myself have had good success in getting my numbers stronger in every lift with this scheme.

    As far as training in the 10's block goes. I think you're right on point, let me give you an example of my own experience regarding my back squat... After my second meet, I did a 10's block and worked up to doing 362lbs x 10 in week 4. I then unloaded and went into the 5's block and put 377lbs and failed to get 4 reps. Later that block I was able to get 377lbs x 5, but then didn't get any stronger after that. I then unloaded and went into the 3's block and couldn't even do 387lbs x 3. It was a total disaster that I really think was caused by going so hard in the 10's block lol. Keep in mind that I did have added stress that came into my life after the 10's block (school, work etc), not sure how big of a role it played. So far I'm doing everything I can for this not to happen with the athlete. This is how I've organized things with this setup so far.

    March: 10's block
    April: 5's block
    May: 3's block
    June: 5's block
    July: 3's block

    After this block I will test him again.


    I really don't think that the athlete has ever suffered from CNS fatigue, and he never gets stiff or sore from any of the work that we do. When we did Hi/Low days we were barely able to add any strength from what I remember. This played the biggest role in the deciscions that I made in modifying his training program. I'd also be curious to see how a track guy or higher level athlete would respond to this program. Back when I was still sprinting, speed work was so hard on my body and I always had issues with my mobility, etc. I'm not sure if I could've help up with this program if I did it back then lol.

  9. #39
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    1: Makes sense - total of 3 work sets. Is this what Dr. Stone does with his athletes? I would be curious how this setup would work for a speed/power athlete who has to run-throw-jump several times a week. It's a lot easier to get stronger when your primary stressor is weights only - do you think you would have had similar strength results if you were sprinting-jumping-throwing several days a week?

    2: Are you planning on rotating any power blocks into the mix?

    3:I think you have a point - when I have done tempo before upper weights I notice a "SLIGHT" drop in strength vs when I do weights before tempo. If I wanted to focus on lower body strength while sprinting I'll probably lean towards Mon: speed and ub wts, Tue: Lb weights, Wed: Tempo 1000m. I'm not surprise that this athlete had issues with the strength/tempo combo esp considering his background and overall numbers - maybe at some you can put tempo back in starting at 600yds and slowing increasing. You can get away with low tempo volume and still increase general fitness with longer warmups etc. Most people have issues with tempo because they are doing too much volume, running tempo too fast, shitty running surfaces, or maybe it's the speed/power component.
    Athletes that I train are 22-26.

    1. I really don't know is Doc Stone uses this setup or not. I do know that the LSUS lifters train like this, and that their overall program is heavily influenced by Stone. Also, they unload by training at 75% of XRM ever fourth week of the block btw. This setup is somewhat comparable to APRE actually. It's hard for me to say if I would have had similar strength results. I think I could have similar results as long as I placed weights as a top priority like I'm doing with the athlete that I'm training. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that I could.

    2. I kind of already use the 3's block as a "power block". But no I haven't considered doing a true power block like you used to have me do. It probably will be something that I will start doing soon.

    3. I'll definitely consider doing tempo again for the athlete someday. The setup you mentioned looks pretty decent, I may switch to it when I decide to start to do tempo again.

  10. #40
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    Re: EMS Max Strength Journal

    RB34, my ATG back squat went from 402 to 417 after doing the 3 week Smolov base cycle. I'm posting it on here because your inbox is full..

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