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Thread: EMS Theory - Continued

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NumberTwo View Post
    The whole muscle imbalance and structural asymmetry issue is quite fascinating from an entrepreneurial point of view. If you go to the chiropractor or physiotherapist and say your knee hurts, 99% of the time it will be due to a muscle imbalance or asymmetry. "You need to strengthen this muscle." I work as a strength coach and 99% of the time I'm trying to loosen up muscles to enhance performance and movement, not provide unwarranted isolated strengthening protocols. Frankly, I'm tired of physiotherapists providing strengthening and exercise programs. Just like Ange said, loosen up the region and provide general mobility, and 99% of the time when the athlete returns to sport, the strength required will also return. Tightness creates restriction and inhibition. Remove the restriction, eliminate the inhibition and guess what - people get stronger.

    When Usain Bolt breaks the 200m world record, no one checks his leg lengths, finds a 1.5 cm discrepancy and then declares, "The slightly longer leg contributed to his fantastic performance!" But he pulls his groin and guess what! "It's his leg length discrepancy that's the problem!"

    In the case of EMS, I would always try to train bilaterally even though one side may be less strong. In most cases, the weaker side will be upgraded (because it is well below its potential) and the healthy side won't be made disproportionately stronger (because it is likely closer to its potential ceiling). Remember, as Charlie often mentioned, EMS provides improvements in Raw Strength. It does not provide the coordination required for specific movements. Thus, there will be a transition period where coordination must be restored through specific movements (i.e. sprinting) to gradually integrate the strength improvements achieved through EMS. I believe only training one side with EMS may create a disparity that could create problems when reacquiring a skill.
    Exactly. Well put.

    (Of course the only problem with the above post is that it isn't as commercial as the other BS options promoted by the usual suspects)

  2. #22
    Good Discussion!

    Please consider this... the degree and severity of the issue(s) whether it be a limb length discrepancy or strength or mobility issue is most commonly rooted in the weak or inconsistent neural innervation, strength or amplitude of the signal and inter / intra-muscular coordination. That is not to say there can't be other contributing factors though such as trauma, structural defects and psychological hurdles. The advice given by Ange was solid... mobility and range of motion performed in a dynamic fashion increase neural activity and coordination. Dysfunction is the stepchild of coordination and is usually seen in close company. No.2 - I agree 100% the entreprenurial model of "sports performance training" is indeed an interesting one. The degree to which information is disseminated is tightly governed by what science says is valid and not based on pure result. I am often reminded of a quote by Ian King "I do it now because it works, I will let the scientists figure out why."

  3. #23
    Angela, because of the differences in leg lengths, did you run with a lift in one shoe?

  4. #24
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Dr's told me I compensated extremely well due to my flexibility and that if I was to avoid issues moving forward I would need to stay flexible, loose.( seems like a fairly obvious piece of advice but this idea does not really become an issue for most until post athletic career .. you hope Mike Forgraves who has been making my orthodics since I was University ( Mike studied under the guy who originally did my orthodics in high school) told me in his opinion it was best to narrow the difference but in a careful way and maybe increase this over time. In general terms the lift does not make both legs the same. To what degree I am not sure. My trail leg ( my right leg) happens to the longest one as well ( almost one inch) and greatest difference is in femur. I wear orthodics ( with a small lift) in all my shoes, most of the time and did also in my spikes most of the time

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Dr's told me I compensated extremely well due to my flexibility and that if I was to avoid issues moving forward I would need to stay flexible, loose.( seems like a fairly obvious piece of advice but this idea does not really become an issue for most until post athletic career .. you hope Mike Forgraves who has been making my orthodics since I was University ( Mike studied under the guy who originally did my orthodics in high school) told me in his opinion it was best to narrow the difference but in a careful way and maybe increase this over time. In general terms the lift does not make both legs the same. To what degree I am not sure. My trail leg ( my right leg) happens to the longest one as well ( almost one inch) and greatest difference is in femur. I wear orthodics ( with a small lift) in all my shoes, most of the time and did also in my spikes most of the time
    Ange,have you ever noticed direct correlations between flexibility and general fitness levels (both ways)?
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  6. #26
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakewi View Post
    Ange,have you ever noticed direct correlations between flexibility and general fitness levels (both ways)?
    I have noticed this in general.Certainly this is my opinion not supported by hard research. The more fit someone is the more likely they are looser and more flexible. The idea of " move it, or loose it" I believe is true and positively correlates with what I have seen from coaching kids and adults.
    The fitter you are the fitter you can be. Those who have, get more ( and therefor are able to get more. ( two of Charlie's fav sayings about playing to your strengths and doing what can be done opposed to complaining about how it can't be done. I keep this in mind constantly especially when training circumstances go off kilter. This is a general principle I learned a long time ago and it has served me well both personally and professionally.
    Very fit athletes might temporarily lack flexibility depending on the training phase thru the year but I think once an athlete prepares to compete adaptation has occurred and range of motion is restored. ( I also think there is a wide range of people in this regard and likely fitter and more flexible people end up in sport due to some of these born attributes )
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 01-10-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  7. #27
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    Thank you,Ange. Interesting point you make linking ROM and adaptive state. This is in my experience very seldomly considered,and nevertheless a key indicator of where an athlete is in his/her training process,as it underlies both output and fitness potentials. I wonder how traditional EMS,in any of its forms addresses this. N2,and Giovanni,how does your new product address directly or indirectly?
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  8. #28
    I need some reactions to this:

    (First of all I know EMS is only complementary to max speed etc, but not having worked much on max speed this season ...) What would be the effect if I introduced high intensity EMS 3-4times/week on hamstrings (explosive strength setting), 1 month prior to indoor competition? Fitness levels are very good, and we've done a good amount of lactic work (not optimal though, since indoor season is not a target).
    Oh: 400m .

    Thank you!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefanie View Post
    I need some reactions to this:

    (First of all I know EMS is only complementary to max speed etc, but not having worked much on max speed this season ...) What would be the effect if I introduced high intensity EMS 3-4times/week on hamstrings (explosive strength setting), 1 month prior to indoor competition? Fitness levels are very good, and we've done a good amount of lactic work (not optimal though, since indoor season is not a target).
    Oh: 400m .

    Thank you!
    Why would you do that?
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  10. #30
    I experimented with it 2 summers ago for outdoors, but under different conditions.. (little training preparation and much work-stress a month prior). Not being as fit and trained as now, I had an impressive (for my records) 200m split (pb of 25.6") during the 400 preliminary round, but being unprepared, I cramped up everywhere at 260m and didn't finish the race.

    For this winter, I wonder if it could help with the missing speed training and explosiveness. (My instinct says I should just stick with the plan, but curiosity and past experimentation won't let it out of my mind... )

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