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Thread: EMS Theory - Continued

  1. #11
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    On the topic of EMS, it would be really nice to have the pre-massage EMS settings / duration and pad placements that Waldemar uses programmed into a CF machine.

    He really knows how to get the most out of EMS for the purposes of massage- nobody has ever got me from uber-tight to loose (with near instant recovery!) and I suspect the pre-massage EMS is an integral part of that.

  2. #12
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    Derek,

    On page 180 of the CFTS, Charlie discusses quad to hamstring strength ratios. Later in that paragraph he mentions that there also needs to be a balance between the right and left hamstrings and that traditional strength training can't correct this because both legs are already being stimulated simultaneously. He then states that EMS can be applied to strength imbalances in specific muscle groups.

    In my case, my left glute is weaker (and smaller) than my right glute. I have tried using EMS strength mode training (10x5on/55off) on my left glute ONLY in the past but was very inconsistent with the treatment to say if it worked or not. I also have to keep in mind that my EMS unit is a NeuroTrac sport XL, so I'm not sure if it is powerful enough or not.

    Do my current EMS protocols sound sufficient enough to potentially fix the asymmetry/muscle imbalance? I'd be very interested to hear some input on potentially correcting muscular asymmetries and muscular strength imbalances in your future manual.

  3. #13
    Very exciting work you are doing Number2. I look forward to hearing more about your EMS unit in the future. Any chance It will be done for your annual strength and conditioning conference next year? For those of you who haven't attended in the past, it is well worth attending.

  4. #14
    Macsprint - I'm trying to figure out a new approach to the conference concept. I've always brought in speakers and made it mostly a one-way interaction (presentations by speakers) with a few questions at the end.

    This year I may try to make it more of a collaboration session with invited guests. Perhaps everyone who shows up will be required to speak for 15 minutes on a topic of their choice (i.e. Kind of like a TED presentation). Let me know if you have any ideas.

    The muscle stim would be completed well before any such conference - but your suggestion gives me an idea to present the conception of the muscle stim and how to integrate it into training programs for speed.

    I will keep everyone informed of my progress on both fronts.

  5. #15
    I'm excited about this

  6. #16
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ku2u#1 View Post
    Derek,

    On page 180 of the CFTS, Charlie discusses quad to hamstring strength ratios. Later in that paragraph he mentions that there also needs to be a balance between the right and left hamstrings and that traditional strength training can't correct this because both legs are already being stimulated simultaneously. He then states that EMS can be applied to strength imbalances in specific muscle groups.

    In my case, my left glute is weaker (and smaller) than my right glute. I have tried using EMS strength mode training (10x5on/55off) on my left glute ONLY in the past but was very inconsistent with the treatment to say if it worked or not. I also have to keep in mind that my EMS unit is a NeuroTrac sport XL, so I'm not sure if it is powerful enough or not.

    Do my current EMS protocols sound sufficient enough to potentially fix the asymmetry/muscle imbalance? I'd be very interested to hear some input on potentially correcting muscular asymmetries and muscular strength imbalances in your future manual.
    Ku2u#1
    you need to think of ems as complimentary. Charlie would be the first person to say do not rely on any one thing to achieve your goal.
    Secondly , everyone has one glute stronger and or smaller ( larger) than the other. Some less, some more... Does it matter? Maybe.
    You mentioned you were inconsistent with your ems treatment. You already answered part of your question have you not? One major principle in strength development is consistency first.
    Have you ever tried flexing the glute with the contraction of the stim? start slow and progress over time. Use the same progressive load and strength as you might for lifting.
    Charlie was always experimenting based on things he knew for sure. Charlie was not afraid to question ideas provided it ran in line with the things he knew for sure. I told the dad of a soccer instructor last night that Charlie did not do research..... but what I had intended to say was his research would not be accepted as a valid science according to the scientific community.
    One last thing.
    Be very careful in how you interpret info regarding muscle balance and what it means for you. I had a very successful athletic career but Charlie felt my one inch leg differential created a lot of issues for me. We rarely discussed this but I had experts later say they were amazed I compensated as well as I did.
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 11-25-2011 at 01:27 PM. Reason: edit content

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Coon View Post
    Ku2u#1
    you need to think of ems as complimentary. Charlie would be the first person to say do not rely on any one thing to achieve your goal.
    Secondly , everyone has one glute stronger and or smaller ( larger) than the other. Some less, some more... Does it matter? Maybe.
    You mentioned you were inconsistent with your ems treatment. You already answered part of your question have you not? One major principle in strength development is consistency first.
    Have you ever tried flexing the glute with the contraction of the stim? start slow and progress over time. Use the same progressive load and strength as you might for lifting.
    Charlie was always experimenting based on things he knew for sure. Charlie was not afraid to question ideas provided it ran in line with the things he knew for sure. I told the dad of a soccer instructor last night that Charlie did not do research..... but what I had intended to say was his research would not be accepted as a valid science according to the scientific community.
    One last thing.
    Be very careful in how you interpret info regarding muscle balance and what it means for you. I had a very successful athletic career but Charlie felt my one inch leg differential created a lot of issues for me. We rarely discussed this but I had experts later say they were amazed I compensated as well as I did.
    Point taken Angela! And I would have taken Charlie's advice over the science community's advice anyday. I do have a history of lower back pain, and have heard Stuart McGill say before that low back issues can be caused by strength/muscle imbalances in left vs. right hip muscles. This was the only reason why I'm curious. I will continue to do some legitimate experimentation before mentioning it again.

  8. #18
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    I want to make sure you understand I am not criticizing proper scientific methodology or saying that a muscle imbalance is not creating a problem. My leg differential created a lot of issues for me along the way but I was also compensating really well for this likely do to my competitive gymnastics background which gave me lots of flexibility going into the first stages of my development.
    I have no doubt that low back issues can be caused by muscle imbalance but how you decide what to do as a result of this is what I am concerned about. As I was just telling tb2010 in another posts, Charlie was always talkin about the idea of addressing the entire body and to be careful to address bits and pieces of it in isolation.
    Not sure what you do and likely getting into this would be a long email.. but do you do many drills such as seated side to side with a med ball? ( you are sitting down, feet up and knees bent and you take a med ball and touch ( barely) each side of your hip back and forth...). Or trail leg forward and or backward? ( also called the hurdle drill, when you stand up against a wall or post and look straight ahead and rotate one leg at a time as though you have trying to clear a hurdle? . Or how about donkey kicks and leg swings front to back either from your knees or standing up against the wall? ( I am doing all of these exercises in some of the bike workouts/ basement tempo series.. = to summerize these exercises are meant to mobilize, strengthen and specifically build work around the hip joint. I used to do and continue to do a great deal of these exercises as a basis of general mobility but specifically to keep this region loose and moving .

  9. #19
    The whole muscle imbalance and structural asymmetry issue is quite fascinating from an entrepreneurial point of view. If you go to the chiropractor or physiotherapist and say your knee hurts, 99% of the time it will be due to a muscle imbalance or asymmetry. "You need to strengthen this muscle." I work as a strength coach and 99% of the time I'm trying to loosen up muscles to enhance performance and movement, not provide unwarranted isolated strengthening protocols. Frankly, I'm tired of physiotherapists providing strengthening and exercise programs. Just like Ange said, loosen up the region and provide general mobility, and 99% of the time when the athlete returns to sport, the strength required will also return. Tightness creates restriction and inhibition. Remove the restriction, eliminate the inhibition and guess what - people get stronger.

    When Usain Bolt breaks the 200m world record, no one checks his leg lengths, finds a 1.5 cm discrepancy and then declares, "The slightly longer leg contributed to his fantastic performance!" But he pulls his groin and guess what! "It's his leg length discrepancy that's the problem!"

    In the case of EMS, I would always try to train bilaterally even though one side may be less strong. In most cases, the weaker side will be upgraded (because it is well below its potential) and the healthy side won't be made disproportionately stronger (because it is likely closer to its potential ceiling). Remember, as Charlie often mentioned, EMS provides improvements in Raw Strength. It does not provide the coordination required for specific movements. Thus, there will be a transition period where coordination must be restored through specific movements (i.e. sprinting) to gradually integrate the strength improvements achieved through EMS. I believe only training one side with EMS may create a disparity that could create problems when reacquiring a skill.

  10. #20
    Member pakewi's Avatar
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    Great job,congratulations to both. EMS world did need a next step in productive sophistication,as Kots would have said!
    Knowledge belongs to the world. (Synapse)

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