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Thread: Help Modify S-L

  1. #1

    Help Modify S-L

    I am training for bobsled and I am basically all power and no speed. I can clean 180kg+ can jump 35+ but my best flying 30 from a 10m run in is only 3.58 (done in november). I went through the entire gpp series and got a lot stronger in the weight room and more techniquely sound on the track. I did the first 2 weeks of spp vancouver but i think i got overtrained. I took my 30m time electric from a standing start 4.32. The last combine i did was 4.02 and i know i went faster since then. I feel relaxed but my legs are pretty fatigued even tempo isn't feeling to good right now. Although i have a high level general fitness i am 220+ and have to put in some more time in the weight room than a typical sprinter but i am going to reduce the volume in the weight room from 5s to 3s on squats and hopefully i can still maintain my bodyweight. I also usually do some sled pushing on saturdays. For bobsled i don't have to accelerate a full 60m it was reduced to 45 at the combine so where should I reduce the volume?

    Example
    Week 3

    M/F: 3x30, 4x30, 3(3x60m)
    W: 2x30, 4x30, 2(3xEFE), 3x60

    Because acceleration and the flying 30 (15to45 split) is most important should i keep in all the 30m starts and just reduce the number of sets of 60s to 1 or 2 or should i reduce the volume from every area. Like 4x30, 2(3x60). Or i thought maybe i could keep the repititions the same but reduce the 30s to 20s. and reduce the 60s to 50s and reduce the acceleration zone distances so instead of having a short to long it would be a short to short. Any help would be appreciated i would love to hear from the experts.

  2. #2
    Those M/F sessions look pretty intense. 750m of track work seems like a lot to me. I would probably scale that back significantly for Monday, and keep Friday a tad lower than Monday, since you're pushing on Saturday.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    I agree that i should scale it back. But i am really looking at advice on how i should scale it back. In acceleration, special endurance or both. Also in Charlie's spp lecture he warns to be careful with the stop watch at this point of the training because the loading will diminish results until recovery. So i don't know how much i should freak out there is still 9 weeks of the training block.

    Thanks for the post RB34. I read through all of it. I was somewhat familiar with the way Hartmen trained the sliders. The new S&C coach seems to use some tempo as Hartmen didn't. One thing you have to keep in mind is that most of the residents at Lake Placid had a backround in track and field or football and came in running around 3.6 is the 30m. If you are already that fast most of the work on the track is of course going to be for maintenance and they have to spend more time in the weight room working on strength as Hartman mentioned. My backround is in olympic weightlifting and my best clean is 200k and my best squat is 270k. So obviously my focus should be on the track.

  5. #5
    I would scale everything back. It does not sound like you have been sprinting for very long, but you are trying to follow an intermediate training program. The volume is way too much for you, especially when you also add in more weight room work than most sprinters. I would recommend some changes to the M/F workouts. It does not sound like you are concerned with speed endurance, correct? Then why run Repeat 60s to work on speed endurance? I would cut the volume of sprints by 50% or more from each workout.

  6. #6
    Member RB34's Avatar
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    Good points. What's your bodyweight? How are your strength training sessions? How was your GPP? I'm not totally sold that bobsledders need three speed days, I would def decrease volume and remove the special endurance work. If you wanted to stay with CF workouts then make Mon/Fri your speed sessions while keeping volume <330 and Wed a pure accel session 0-30 while keeping volume <240. I would have 2 days of ext tempo keeping volume 1000-1500yds - very important to support the speed work.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnewgard View Post
    I agree that i should scale it back. But i am really looking at advice on how i should scale it back. In acceleration, special endurance or both. Also in Charlie's spp lecture he warns to be careful with the stop watch at this point of the training because the loading will diminish results until recovery. So i don't know how much i should freak out there is still 9 weeks of the training block.

    Thanks for the post RB34. I read through all of it. I was somewhat familiar with the way Hartmen trained the sliders. The new S&C coach seems to use some tempo as Hartmen didn't. One thing you have to keep in mind is that most of the residents at Lake Placid had a backround in track and field or football and came in running around 3.6 is the 30m. If you are already that fast most of the work on the track is of course going to be for maintenance and they have to spend more time in the weight room working on strength as Hartman mentioned. My backround is in olympic weightlifting and my best clean is 200k and my best squat is 270k. So obviously my focus should be on the track.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    Good points. What's your bodyweight? How are your strength training sessions? How was your GPP? I'm not totally sold that bobsledders need three speed days, I would def decrease volume and remove the special endurance work. If you wanted to stay with CF workouts then make Mon/Fri your speed sessions while keeping volume <330 and Wed a pure accel session 0-30 while keeping volume <240. I would have 2 days of ext tempo keeping volume 1000-1500yds - very important to support the speed work.
    My BDW is typically 220. I did the full 7 weeks of charlie's gpp using a tire instead of hills since it was winter. During GPP i did best for 5 in the pc and best for 10 in squat on mondays after speed and then -10% of that on friday. Upper body tuesday and thursday. I did a 4 week cycle working up to 150 for 5 in the power clean and 200kg for 10 in the back squat. Then another 4 week cycle best for 5 in both the power clean and squat. Now i am going to do mostly triples for maintance and all the work is consolidated into 2 workouts per week, I don't think i need to get any stronger. I don't have much of a backround in track but i spent the last 2 years training with the northern michigan track team. The first year doing the typical long to short routine the nmu team does to get ready for indoor season. And this year I went through charlie's gpp and spp twice, i probably overtrained but i did develope somewhat of a base. My technique definately got much better but now I just have to run fast.

    These are the modifications I came up with last night before your post. But it seems like you believe this would still be to much so I will continue to modify it. Thoughts?

    Wk4: M/F 4x30m 4mr, 2(3x60m) 30m acceleration 3.5/8mr W: 2(3x30m alternating with and without sled) 6/9mr, 3xEFE 9mr, 3x60m with 40m acceleration. Total Volume: 1500m

    Wk5: M/F 2x30m, 3x40m 5/8mr, 4x60m with 40m acceleration 5mr. W: 2(3x30m alternating sled) 6/10mr, 4xflying20m 30m buildup 12mr, 3x60 50m acceleration. Total Volume: 1440m

    Wk6: M/F 2x30m, 3x40m 6/8mr, 3x60m with 40m acceleration 6mr. W: 2(4x30m alternating sled) 6/10mr, 4xflying20m 40m buildup 15mr, 3x60 full acceleration 15mr. Total Volume: 1440m

    Wk7: M/F 2x30m, 3x40m 6/8mr, 3x60m with 50m acceleration 8.5mr. W: 4x30m alternating sled 6/10mr, 4xflying20m 40m buildup 15mr, 4x60 full acceleration 15mr. Total Volume: 1320m

    Wk8: M/F 4x30m 7mr, 2(2x60m) 50m acceleration 10/12mr. W: 2(3x40m) Alternating sled 5/8mr, 3x60m with 40m acceleration 5mr: Total Volume: 1140m

    Wk9: M/F 4x30m 7mr, 4x60 with a 50m acceleration 15mr. W: 4x40m sled pulls 6mr, 4x60m with a 50m acceleration 10mr. Total Volume: 1120m

    Wk10: M/F 4x30m 7mr, 4x60m full acceleration 15mr. W: 4x30m sled pulls 6mr, 4x60m Full Acceleration 15mr Total Volume: 1080m

    Wk11: M/F 3x30m 7mr, 3x60m, W: 4x30m sled pulls 7mr, 4x60m Total Volume: 780m

    Wk12: M/F 3x30m 7mr, 3x60m with a 50m acceleration, W: 3x30m 7mr, 4x60m with a 50m acceleration Total Volume: 750m

    This would bring my to about first week in august and I would use the rest of the month like a competition period doing a mock combine every week and continuing to taper down.

  8. #8
    Member RB34's Avatar
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    Wait to see what others say about the training, but I still think it could be too much:

    Mon:
    3x30
    4xfef

    Wed:
    5x20 sled
    5x20 3pt

    Fri:
    4x30
    3xfef

  9. #9
    Banned TopCat's Avatar
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    You basically don't need any speed endurance so it's going to be all acceleration and top speed work for you. In terms of too much or too little it is all relative. Start off with something you can handle and then progress from there. After a few years of training you can probably do a lot more acceleration work than is in this program and as a beginner you can probably progress on less.

  10. #10
    Keep it simple. Hartman's guys were the fastest and he used a simple program. I don't think all were blazing fast before coming to him. No need to get too cute. His guys never ran over 100m per interviews I have read and I imagine rarely even got close to that.

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