Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 73

Thread: Strength gains

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by hemann View Post
    Thanks for everyone's responses....

    Star: are you suggesting that I do 2-3 sets of heavy weight and then hypertrophy stuff afterwards? So like adding in additional presses with sets of 8? I could even do dumbbell work even?
    Yes, on at least one day. If you lift heavy and hard, one day of bench/chest per week will work. If you're not sure about 1 day/week or 2 days/week, split the difference.

    Week 1
    Day 1 Upper
    Day 2 Lower
    Day 3 Upper

    Week 2
    Day 1 Lower
    Day 2 Upper
    Day 3 Lower

    If you hit chest twice per week, you could do one strength day (low rep high intensity) along with maybe 2-3 sets of incline dumbell press, and do hypertrophy the second day (incline bench, 3-4 sets of 8). I also like weighted dips, as they hit both the chest and triceps fairly hard.

    If you're worried about volume, drop the accessory execises.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by star61 View Post
    Yes, on at least one day. If you lift heavy and hard, one day of bench/chest per week will work. If you're not sure about 1 day/week or 2 days/week, split the difference.

    Week 1
    Day 1 Upper MONDAY
    Day 2 Lower WEDNESDAY
    Day 3 Upper FRIDAY

    Week 2
    Day 1 Lower MONDAY
    Day 2 Upper WEDNESDAY
    Day 3 Lower FRIDAY

    If you hit chest twice per week, you could do one strength day (low rep high intensity) along with maybe 2-3 sets of incline dumbell press, and do hypertrophy the second day (incline bench, 3-4 sets of 8). I also like weighted dips, as they hit both the chest and triceps fairly hard.

    If you're worried about volume, drop the accessory execises.
    Thats the exact set up i did last fall that worked really well. But can I do speed work on upper body days? I feel like that set up doesn't suit my lower body as well because i can handle 2x per week lower body. At least I could back when my poundage was 100 pounds lighter.

    As for the body weight gain... Yes that was my original intent. I absolutely need to gain weight, I haven't gained much bw at all. Its why i asked if:

    bodyweight gains lead to strength gains even with 1-5 rep range workouts.

    OR

    hypertrophy style training leads to larger muscles and increased maximal strength when transitioned.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by hemann View Post
    I don't think I've gained much muscle fiber at all. That's what my original post was asking really. Can I develop muscle fiber lifting heavy weights as long as I gain body weight?
    You can't grow new muscle fiber, you can enlarge your existing fibers (hypertrophy) or improve your ability to use what you have (strength)...or both. You can only gain weight by increasing your caloric intake above your caloric expenses.

    Or should I spend 4-6 weeks doing 3x8 and adding some mass and then lower the reps to the 1-5 range? Too most ppl this maybe isn't too much of a concern. But my bench press is embarrassing. I haven't made considerable progress in 4 years now...!!
    That's old style linear periodization. Whether you call it complex, concurrent or block training, working both qualities, mass and strength, at the same time is the better way to go.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by hemann View Post
    Thats the exact set up i did last fall that worked really well. But can I do speed work on upper body days? I feel like that set up doesn't suit my lower body as well because i can handle 2x per week lower body. At least I could back when my poundage was 100 pounds lighter.
    I like to train speed early in the day on a lower body day, but there is no reason you can't do speed before upper body as long as you have adequate recovery before the next speed session.

    As for the body weight gain... Yes that was my original intent. I absolutely need to gain weight, I haven't gained much bw at all. Its why i asked if:

    bodyweight gains lead to strength gains even with 1-5 rep range workouts.

    OR

    hypertrophy style training leads to larger muscles and increased maximal strength when transitioned.
    Both are correct, which is why I like to train strength and hypertrophy concurrently. Larger muscles have a higher capacity for strength, and stronger muscles can handle more load leading to improved hypertrophy. But you must eat an excess of calories in order to gain mass. You might try adding a protein shake or two, or possibly even a weight gain shake.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RB34 View Post
    Too much IMO... Most athletes cant handle 3 total body sessions.
    when you posted the alabama football offseason workout they were doing high volume strength and speed with like 20 sets of power cleans each day 3x per week. Werent they?

    Im curious why you think 3 strength and speed sessions of low volume is too much?

    Is there a way i can upload an excel file onto CF.com? i have a program written up that im really excited about.

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,801
    Quote Originally Posted by hemann View Post
    I don't think I've gained much muscle fiber at all. That's what my original post was asking really. Can I develop muscle fiber lifting heavy weights as long as I gain body weight?

    Week 1 3x3
    Week 2 3x5
    Week 3 5-3-1
    Week 4 deload

    Or should I spend 4-6 weeks doing 3x8 and adding some mass and then lower the reps to the 1-5 range? Too most ppl this maybe isn't too much of a concern. But my bench press is embarrassing. I haven't made considerable progress in 4 years now...!!
    Not sure what your goals are now. You originally were talking about your maxes moving up but you want to move bodyweight up too? Not that hard to do but you don't need the reps to be that high for that long especially if strength is your primary goal. Four weeks at the most maybe every 4-6 months. You can get an occasional volume bump to begin a block at times after the strength endurance block (3 x 10 possibly for four weeks gradually increasing the int.) as in the intro micro being for 5 x 5 or 3 x 10 then descending into 3 x 5 and possibly 3 x 3 during the block with the unload week being another, lighter 3 x 3 or 3 x 2. The first week of a block having higher volume serves as the overreaching week.

    I am proposing not that you go super- light week one but possibly not as heavy as you seem to have done in the past-based largely on your comment about bp and your first week of inclines. As I said earlier, I have seen time an again people start a four week block where week one works them so hard they have no where to progress to. If they move up by too much week 2 they often can't go up week 3.

    If the volume does not stay constant during a four week period as in strength end./hypertrophy I would suggest dropping the volume down as intensification takes place.

    Not a big fan of the BFS rep scheme.

    If you have not done higher reps in some time then perhaps 3 x 10 for 3-4 weeks.

    Next weeks 3 x 5, 3 x 5, 3 x 5, 3 x 3 with all but the last week ascending in intensity.

    Then another block starting with an overreaching week of 5 x 5, then 3 x 5, 3 x 3, then a light 3 x 2.

    If you are removed from high reps for an extended period of time but not so long since doing a dedicated strength end. block, start a block, only in the off or pre-season with a single week of 3 x 10 then 3 x 5, 3 x 5, 3 x 5 (or 3 x 3).

    I would not recommend doing 6 straight weeks of the same reps-and the weights that would be associated with those reps. Change a bit more frequently as in every 3-4 weeks. It appears as you get away from true strength work for too long and then when you do it, you don't spend enough time, relatively speaking in that range.

  7. #27
    What improved my strength more than anything was Bulgarian style lifting, maximums everyday, I litterally increased my squat by 25kg in 4 weeks after a 2 year plateu, as soon as I went back to traditional methods, plateu again.
    Now obviously this type of training is not suitable for use with sprinting, so a compromise must be made. What I found incredibly effective was two exercises per training session for 8 sets of 2 reps. When capable of completeing 8 sets of 3 then increase the weight. This was the system of training used by the legendary strongman Doug Hepburn. Example:

    Monday: Squat: 90-95% x 2reps x 8sets
    Bench: 90-95% x 2reps x 8sets
    Chin ups: max reps x 1-3 sets

    Wednesday: Deadlift or rack pull and bench press.

    Friday: Squat: 90-95% x 2reps x 8sets
    Bench: 90-95% x 2reps x 8sets
    Hyperextension: 1 set x 5reps
    Reverse hyper: 1 set x 5reps
    Hyper complex: 1 set x 5reps

  8. #28
    I agree with Pioneer that you should change your rep scheme fairly frequently, but I still disagree that lifting with moderate loads most of the time is beneficial. Lower load or low volume workouts should come at the END of a microcycle, when you feel overtrained or when your numbers plateau. When that occurs, reduce volume for a week, even two if needed, then switch exercises. You could do this every 3-4 weeks (benchpress, boardpress, incline press) as well as accessory exercises (close grip bench, dumbell incline press, weighted dips).

    You can also cycle your rep schemes on a weekly basis....

    Week 1
    Primary 5 x 5

    Week 2
    Primary 3 x 3
    Aux. 3 x 8

    Week 3
    Primary 4 x 2
    Aux. 3 x 10

    And as I mentioned before, if you really want to increase strength, include sets in the 1-3 rep range at near maximal loads. If you want to increase mass, include sets in the 8 rep range pushing fairly close to failure and increase your calorie intake, especially protein. You don't have to max out every workout, and you don't have to go to failure, but you need to lift close to max on a regular basis, and by max I mean the rep max with whatever rep scheme your using.


    Rest and recovery is important, however cruising along lifting with loads that are fairly easy, considering the rep range, is a waste of time, IMHO.

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,801
    I am not advocating moderate loads throughout the block, only not going so heavy in the first week(particularly) that it serves as inducing more fatigue than stimulation with week two heavier still. In general, though, the best executed, results producing schemes I've seen have been mostly submaximal with only week 3 or 4 (in a 4 week intensification scheme) should be performed at maximal levels.

    If all you are doing is lifting, then the intensities can be increased somewhat in my opinion but when you have others stressors/high intensity elements present in the program, being a bit conservative is more beneficial to obtaining results in both the lifting and the more important sport performance.

    I disagree that you need to lift close to maximal levels on a regular basis. This so compromises your ability to recover that the other elements in the program have to suffer. I think he's doing more than just lifting. If he was only lifting than perhaps the weights could be pushed up a bit more but I would not suggest by much.

    Low volume and low load should come at the end of a cycle for sure but the volume can also be dropped throughout the block to obtain the overreaching effect. In some blocks the volume might stay constant for 2-3 weeks but the ones I've typically used have dropped off throughout.

    Obviously many roads to Rome.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    I am not advocating moderate loads throughout the block, only not going so heavy in the first week(particularly) that it serves as inducing more fatigue than stimulation with week two heavier still. In general, though, the best executed, results producing schemes I've seen have been mostly submaximal with only week 3 or 4 (in a 4 week intensification scheme) should be performed at maximal levels.

    If all you are doing is lifting, then the intensities can be increased somewhat in my opinion but when you have others stressors/high intensity elements present in the program, being a bit conservative is more beneficial to obtaining results in both the lifting and the more important sport performance.

    I disagree that you need to lift close to maximal levels on a regular basis. This so compromises your ability to recover that the other elements in the program have to suffer. I think he's doing more than just lifting. If he was only lifting than perhaps the weights could be pushed up a bit more but I would not suggest by much.

    Low volume and low load should come at the end of a cycle for sure but the volume can also be dropped throughout the block to obtain the overreaching effect. In some blocks the volume might stay constant for 2-3 weeks but the ones I've typically used have dropped off throughout.

    Obviously many roads to Rome.
    I think if you and I compared actual plans we would be very close...its just in the wording. And as long as volume and frequency are controlled, and adequate time is taken between similar workouts (at least 72hrs) and recovery weeks are used as needed, recovery will not be an issue.


    I agree that every workout cannot be maximal in terms of intensity. In fact, I think you can make great progress NEVER lifting maximally. But by that I mean intensity, or 1RM. I think you can make great strength gains doing doubles with your 3RM, maybe pushing to an actual 3RM or even a 2RM every three or four workouts. BUT, I think you need to lift close to failure, or close to the rep max, in most work sets. I'm not counting those sets used to pyramid up to a weight, but you should quickly get up to your work sets and they should be performed at a very high effort with a load close to the rep max you are using. Another way to put it would be to leave only one rep in the tank on your work sets, and occasionally leaving none.

    However, when most athletes think in terms of submaximal, they are also thinking in terms of effort, so I believe it is important to make the disctinction and why I think you need to be careful with the term 'submaximal'. When I think in terms of submaximal, I think in terms increasing the number of reps to say 5 per set (for strength) or to around 8 for hypertrophy. This higher rep scheme requires a lower load, but that does not mean the effort can't still be very high. I like to back off slightly in week 1 as you do, because there is a jump in volume from the recovery period. After that, its high effort lifting for 2-4 weeks or until the next recovery week is necessary. However, anytime you feel strong in the gym, I think you should take advantage of it. I have hit many PRs, including a recent PB after a long layoff, when I had expected to go in and just have a good solid workout.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •