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Thread: Movement Prep

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by svass
    I agree with boogatc. You obviously haven't trained many hockey players. This is a very serious consideration to take when brining a hockey player to the track who has been stuck in hockey skates all in-season. Hockey players are prone to developing shins splints, so you have to monitor training volumes carefully.

    In addition to the cold outside, a lot of the coaches I've talked to prefer the bike in season as it unloads the adductors and limits the chance of groin pulls.
    I trained myself and I played college hockey.. So, I'm sure I understand training a bit better than any coach.

    Back to your concerns of big players. 235lbs isn't big. 335lbs is big. And even at that the same principles are applied. Gradual increases in volume and adequate recovery. The same goes for the addition of any training element. What's the argument?

  2. #12
    [QUOTE=Blinky]I trained myself and I played college hockey.. So, I'm sure I understand training a bit better than any coach.[QUOTE=Blinky]

    nice, so at age 18-22, you knew more than any coach. And are you saying you haven't learned anything in the last 6-8 years that would make you a better coach now? To quote Buddy Morris :"the only difference between some strength coaches and God is that God knows he is not them....

    [QUOTE=Blinky]Back to your concerns of big players. 235lbs isn't big. 335lbs is big. And even at that the same principles are applied. Gradual increases in volume and adequate recovery. The same goes for the addition of any training element. What's the argument?[QUOTE=Blinky]

    You want to argue what "big" is. OK 335 is bigger than 235- you win. How many 335 guys they got playing hockey out in western Canada?
    235-255 is as big is they get in pro hockey, and I doubt there are many 235 guys sprinting at the national or world class level, so what's your point? 235 is big for full out sprint training without exceptional attention volume and adaquate recovery. Which was my original point.Just throwing guys that size out there and going is foolhardy at best and inviting injury.

    I work with professional hockey players, and most don't know the science behind training, they just want to know what will work. So you're exceptional if you have complete enlightenment. congratulations

  3. #13
    [QUOTE=boogatc][QUOTE=Blinky]I trained myself and I played college hockey.. So, I'm sure I understand training a bit better than any coach.[QUOTE=Blinky]

    nice, so at age 18-22, you knew more than any coach. And are you saying you haven't learned anything in the last 6-8 years that would make you a better coach now? To quote Buddy Morris :"the only difference between some strength coaches and God is that God knows he is not them....

    [QUOTE=Blinky]Back to your concerns of big players. 235lbs isn't big. 335lbs is big. And even at that the same principles are applied. Gradual increases in volume and adequate recovery. The same goes for the addition of any training element. What's the argument?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinky

    You want to argue what "big" is. OK 335 is bigger than 235- you win. How many 335 guys they got playing hockey out in western Canada?
    235-255 is as big is they get in pro hockey, and I doubt there are many 235 guys sprinting at the national or world class level, so what's your point? 235 is big for full out sprint training without exceptional attention volume and adaquate recovery. Which was my original point.Just throwing guys that size out there and going is foolhardy at best and inviting injury.

    I work with professional hockey players, and most don't know the science behind training, they just want to know what will work. So you're exceptional if you have complete enlightenment. congratulations
    The reference to 300+ pound guys is the fact that NFL football players can handle speed work, so can 235 pound hockey players. The size of your athletes is not the issue; itís their response to the stimulus you give them. If they get shin splints your volume is too high too quickly. Run hill sprints in the beginning and intro tempo on grass, and add short accelerations. Give them what they need when they can handle it.

    Hockey players like to ride because it is easier than running (it has nothing to do with their knowledge or the science of training), they have an aversion towards sprinting (its hard work). I am sure it is very difficult to talk them into following your concepts of speed work.

    If they wish to improve their speed they need to sprint either on the ice or dry land, if they do not then all you can do is help them improve their power (explosive medi balls / plyos / weights).

  4. #14
    It sure is just a matter of gradual increases in volume and adequate recovery, yeah right, what about being in skates most of the time and losing ankle mobility? Is it not one factor that may cause shin splints, mostly if the guy is heavy?

  5. #15
    Member boldwarrior's Avatar
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    Shin splints has been hacked over and over on the forum. I'm sure a search will produce lots of Exercises to do.
    eg
    Calf massage / stretching
    Tib Ant strengthening / massage
    Feet strengthening

  6. #16
    thanks boldwarrior, it sums up what I meant to say. In the discussion I thought there were some really good points on volume regulation and recovery management with heavier players and concerns like these, but I think when it comes to being in skates a big part of the year, some extra work needs to be done on the structures to get them loose enough and get enough tissue quality to tolerate speed work...

  7. #17
    I like 30-40m sprints coming off a curve into the straight for establishing solid cross-over quick feet technique(on ice) with fellow hockey players. The curve work in both directions will provide a reference point in the mind of solid slow feeling technically sound crossovers which look very fast on the ice to the outside observer.

    As for ankle mobilty i go with jump rope after inseason ice sessions for 12 - 15 minutes(8-10 reps of 30-40 secs separated with 1 min recoveries). 3-4 X a week, again after the ice session.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by boogatc View Post
    I have also had great luck training my off-season hockey guys using CFTS, working more on the acceleration phase. They tell me the easy/fast/easy and fast/easy/ fast running feel alot like the acceleration requirements on-ice. Running the big circuit is somewhat taxing for them but reinforces good running techniques, which many hockey guys don't have.
    I will point out that you need to watch training volumes with hockey players, simply because they are not runners, some are big guys, and the banging around can be brutal on their shins.

    I'm still trying to figure out the obsession with the bike in hockey- short hams and hip flexors are not the training outcomes I'm looking for with my players!
    Also- I've read about the shortcomings of agility ladders on the forums, but the guys I work with like them, and feel they help their feet. Could it be a placebo effect, like swinging a heavier bat in the on-deck circle? and are the ladders detrimental? If not, I would tend to leave them in.
    I don't particularly like advising 100 or 200s with my fellow hockey players. Generally i'd keep it as far out as 60m with this an intensive tempo relaxed run.

    One time at jrA camp our coaches had us do 20x100m at 1 minute intervals for 20 minutes, 20 minute rest and then 10x200m at 2 minute intervals for 20 minutes. Brutal session, with brutal contacts that is only gonna cause damage to leg structures in the long run.

  9. #19
    Administrator Angela Coon's Avatar
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    I was in my last year of high school when Ty Domi ( Canadian Hockey tough guy who had a very successful career) was in grade 9 playing hockey with my brother's friends who were 2 years older on top of that. Years later Ty contacted Charlie to work with him and eventually his son ( who is currently playing at U of Western Ontario and enroute to becoming a top draft picks in the NHL). Ty did a lot of 100's tempo style ( he was a sprinter in high school and his relay did well at OFSAA. = this track meet in our provice was said at one time to have the third highest ranking results behind Flordia and Texas ). He did a slow version of med ball throws down the field and if and when he was looser a much faster aggressive version. We often used this drill in varied speeds depending on the situation. Ty did all the power speed drills, sit up circuits shown in GPP ( we called this 30 sec on and 30 seconds off/ a killer when you are new at this) and lots of explosvive med ball drills. He was a very talented natural athlete. Box jumps were often done repeadedly ( usually sets of 10, break and repeat but also did explosive single leg drills too) and hills were also done in shorter versions. ( we have a great, gentle slopped hill ,around the corner I still use for 30 to 40 second runs in fall and spring but also 30 meter ( and less) accels which are perfect for athletes and speed work for the less experienced.
    IF Ty was not getting played enough after the game he did the bike intervals ( shown in Bike Workout from the store) with varied exercises. The idea was to replicate playing time. ( management apparently determines who gets how much ice time and i was surprised to learn it didnt always go to who was playing best at any given moment. I learned this was a normal aspect of high level hockey. Ty was scoring more goals than the bigger $$ guns on the team but he was making management look bad so consequently Ty would get benched. ( ergo sum playing time was not consistent) . He had bonus money cotracted to " x " number of goals during reg season and playoffs and as he approached this number management would make sure he was not on the ice. CHarlie advised the importance of keeping proper stimulus replicating the game if the total minutes of game playing fell. I think a few key lifts were used as well
    Using 60 meters is a great idea or what ever it takes. Ty was very diciplined and fit. He was a hard worker and extremely determined. Does not really matter what distance for whom. Each player is going to be different. Adjustments can be made.
    200's can be extremely useful when you might have limited time but need to get the work in. We used sets of 4, 5 or 6 of 200's as you could get this done faster than doing 100's but its different and harder.
    ( The above, after mentioned workout you did at a jr. A camp? Was that the total volume? If so that is a crazy amount of work).
    Last edited by Angela Coon; 01-12-2012 at 04:49 PM.

  10. #20
    Yeh, jr.A main camp, end of august. This after a morning practice, and still had to have a camp game later that day, manitoba league-waywayseecappo wolverines. We did them on the hard asphalt, which was also another horrible injury causing variable.

    Reason i like to keep them at 60m is because of the hockey stance, which will cause a majority of hockey players to 'sit' while their sprinting on the ground( unless they are already a student of relaxed upright passive tension sprinting)

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