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Thread: SPP help

  1. #1

    SPP help

    First of all I'm a sophomore in college, a hockey player and a wannabe sprinter . I play club hockey at school and its not all that competitive and while I am training to both improve in hockey and sprinting I think my main training focus is for sprinting. That said I never ran track before indoor this year (one meet, 8.01 FAT in the 60m) and I've always been a "slow white boy". I finished my hockey season at the end of February and did a 6 week GPP (losely based on the GPP download). I now have 11 weeks of SPP before I start a S+C internship over the summer where I will be working out with other interns and players. The program is similar to MBoyle's stuff, for those who are familiar. It doesn't include much speed or accel work from what I gather so I am going to kind of use it as a GPP2 (I think there is some significant weights volume and conditioning) and then do 5ish weeks of a "SPP2" before hockey starts in the fall.

    So I just got the Vanc '04 download and I watched it and I've been studying the graphs etc. and trying to see how I can incorporate the concepts and trends into my training as well as seeing where I've been "right" and "wrong" in my training recently. I think I have been too afraid of volume recently, especially following my GPP period where ~750m/week of accel work (albeit on turf not the track) 3/wk was fine as well as tempo/general conditioning and weights 3/wk. Over the last few weeks the intensity of speed work and weights has gone up but I've been afraid of doing more than ~300-400m accel/wk and I think I've put too much focus on weights rather than making speed the primary focus. Also I've gone to two days/wk and I am getting lingering soreness whereas with 3/wk during GPP, I guess the frequency was high enough that I got very little soreness. Here is what I wrote up for the remainder of my SPP

    WEEK1(300m)-
    Mon(120m):
    3x4x10m
    FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5

    Fri(180m):
    1x3x10m
    1x5x30m
    FSQ 4x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5

    WEEK2(380m)-
    Mon(120m):
    3x4x10m
    FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5

    Fri(260m):
    1x2x10m
    2x4x30m
    FSQ 4x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5

    WEEK3 (400m)-
    Mon(120m):
    3x4x10m
    FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5


    Fri(280m):
    1x4x10m
    2x4x30m
    FSQ 4x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5

    WEEK4 UNLOAD WEIGHTS, SPRINTS @97%(480m)-
    Mon(200m):
    2x5x20m
    FSQ 2x3
    SL RDL 2x4
    Push up 1x4
    Row 1x4

    Wed(100m):
    2x5x10m
    FSQ 3x4
    SL RDL 2x4
    Push up 2x4
    Row 2x4

    Fri(180m):
    2x3x30m
    FSQ 2x3
    SL RDL 2x4
    Push up 1x4
    Row 1x4

    WEEK5(590m)
    Mon(220m):
    1x3x20m
    1x4x40m
    FSQ 2x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 1x5
    Row 1x5

    Wed(150m):
    2x5x15m
    FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5

    Fri(220m):
    1x3x20m
    1x4x40m
    FSQ 2x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 1x5
    Row 1x5

    WEEK6(650m)-
    Mon(220m):
    1x3x20m
    1x4x40m
    FSQ 2x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 1x5
    Row 1x5

    Wed(170m):
    1x5x10m
    2x4x15m
    FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5

    Fri(260m):
    1x3x20m
    1x6x40m
    FSQ 2x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 1x5
    Row 1x5

    WEEK7(700m)-
    Mon(260m):
    1x3x20m
    1x5x40m
    FSQ 2x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 1x5
    Row 1x5

    Wed(180m):
    3x4x15m
    FSQ 4x4 (+5lbs/wk)
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 2x5
    Row 2x5

    Fri(260m):
    1x3x20m
    1x6x40m
    FSQ 2x4
    SL RDL 2x5
    Push up 1x5
    Row 1x5

    WEEK8-
    unload speed (~600m), move to maintenance weights (snatch grip dead and bench press or
    weighted push ups 3x2 @80% MWF)

    WEEK9(760m)-
    M(280m): 1x4x20m
    1x4x50m
    W(160m): 2x4x20m
    F(320m):
    1x4x20m
    1x4xFEF

    WEEK10(780m)-
    M(280m):
    1x4x20m
    1x4x50m
    W(160m):
    2x4x20m
    F(340m):
    1x3x20m
    1x3xFEF
    1x2xflying 20

    WEEK11-
    M(210m):
    1x3x20m
    1x3x50m
    W(100m):
    1x4x10m
    1x3x20m
    Bench Press
    F:
    1x3x20m
    time trial 60m

    I should note that I am planning on running a few indoor meets next winter in Jan/Feb which is in the middle or near the end of a 6wk break in my hockey season. So for now I am just trying to get as fast as possible without any real goal of tapering for a race or anything because I have hockey season first. Also, as you can see I'd like to do a time trial 60m that last week before the internship to see how my 60m has improved since the 8.01 FAT in a meet a couple months ago (comparison won't be 100% accurate but close enough). One last thing- the bolded part of the list is the workouts I've already done in SPP and my most recent front squat was 220 4x4 and I'm 6' 185... just for reference.

    Sorry for the length. Its kinda long but let me know if there is any info I left out. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    needs work, ur trying to combine to many diff things.

  3. #3
    Rupert
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tamfb
    needs work, ur trying to combine to many diff things.
    Tam,

    Could you please open it up a bit and get into some details? What do you think needs work?

    Rupert
    CharlieFrancis.com

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert
    Tam,

    Could you please open it up a bit and get into some details? What do you think needs work?

    Rupert
    CharlieFrancis.com

    my bad, im not sure if hes following cf spp programs or what, from looking at his program i dont think he is. if you really want results i would start with the 7 weeks gpp program then move to the 12 week spp program, reduce the volume in half each session and keep tempo vol btw 600-1500m. if you have more questions ask.

  5. #5
    Rupert
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tamfb
    my bad, im not sure if hes following cf spp programs or what, from looking at his program i dont think he is. if you really want results i would start with the 7 weeks gpp program then move to the 12 week spp program, reduce the volume in half each session and keep tempo vol btw 600-1500m. if you have more questions ask.
    Nice post, points awarded.

    Good stuff.

    Rupert
    CharlieFrancis.com

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by tamfb
    my bad, im not sure if hes following cf spp programs or what, from looking at his program i dont think he is. if you really want results i would start with the 7 weeks gpp program then move to the 12 week spp program, reduce the volume in half each session and keep tempo vol btw 600-1500m. if you have more questions ask.
    Thanks for the replies. I have been out of town for the last week so sorry I didn't see this earlier.

    Not sure why you said I am trying to mix too many things. I am not exactly following the CF SPP example from the vanc download. That example is for a high level athlete and I am clearly not a high level sprinter. I did a GPP program prior to this SPP, again not exactly as the example is laid out in the dvd but I tried to adapt it so that it would work for me. That said I don't think I did the best job of that and I think I was too afraid of doing a higher volume of work which would increase my work capacity which would have helped me.

    You said to follow the SPP example but halve the volume and keep tempo at 600-1500m but what about the fact that the vanc example is (partially) aimed at improving speed endurance which I don't need? Also I messed up my count somehow and I will only be able to complete week 10 before I start this internship which will dictate my training.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks again for the replies.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mreoyn09
    Thanks for the replies. I have been out of town for the last week so sorry I didn't see this earlier.

    Not sure why you said I am trying to mix too many things. I am not exactly following the CF SPP example from the vanc download. That example is for a high level athlete and I am clearly not a high level sprinter. I did a GPP program prior to this SPP, again not exactly as the example is laid out in the dvd but I tried to adapt it so that it would work for me. That said I don't think I did the best job of that and I think I was too afraid of doing a higher volume of work which would increase my work capacity which would have helped me.

    You said to follow the SPP example but halve the volume and keep tempo at 600-1500m but what about the fact that the vanc example is (partially) aimed at improving speed endurance which I don't need? Also I messed up my count somehow and I will only be able to complete week 10 before I start this internship which will dictate my training.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks again for the replies.

    i understand you are not a high level sprinters thats ok thats why i said cut the total volume in half and keep the tempo vol btw 600-1500. also i would probably have two high int days mon/thur, low int tue/fri, and mobility/circuit on wed. if you follow the spp program it will work even with the spilt runs 60m in the program, remember you are still taking plenty of rest btw those spilt 60's and they are still speed. for spp i would keep one spilt run day and one speed for the first 7 weeks then move to two speed days weeks 8-12.

  8. #8
    Why two high intensity days? I've read a number of Charlie's posts where he says its better to spread the load across 3 days rather than the same volume on two days. Doing the SPP plan with half the volume may work, and the split 60s may develop some speed but wouldn't it be more beneficial to adopt the ideas behind the planning, that CF lays out in the Vanc video, to suit my needs? I don't think speed endurance should at all be a focus for me because its not needed in hockey and its only needed a bit at the end of the 60 and as CF says beginners are better off working on acceleration and general fitness.

    Also, CF has said that the shorter the duration of the event the shorter/more phases needed. For example a shot putter needs more phases than a 200m who needs more than a 1500m. However, beginners should spend a longer time in the respective phases (esp GPP). I am looking at the most going to 60m and most of my training is aimed at improving accel but I am a beginner so where does that leave me in terms of the length/number of phases of training?

    Maybe CF can give feedback on some of these questions...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mreoyn09
    Why two high intensity days? I've read a number of Charlie's posts where he says its better to spread the load across 3 days rather than the same volume on two days. Doing the SPP plan with half the volume may work, and the split 60s may develop some speed but wouldn't it be more beneficial to adopt the ideas behind the planning, that CF lays out in the Vanc video, to suit my needs? I don't think speed endurance should at all be a focus for me because its not needed in hockey and its only needed a bit at the end of the 60 and as CF says beginners are better off working on acceleration and general fitness.

    Also, CF has said that the shorter the duration of the event the shorter/more phases needed. For example a shot putter needs more phases than a 200m who needs more than a 1500m. However, beginners should spend a longer time in the respective phases (esp GPP). I am looking at the most going to 60m and most of my training is aimed at improving accel but I am a beginner so where does that leave me in terms of the length/number of phases of training?

    Maybe CF can give feedback on some of these questions...

    well u can do what you like, you were asking for help and i was trying to help. my athletes including myself run fast so we must be doing something right, the cf methods that i revised slightly works...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tamfb
    well u can do what you like, you were asking for help and i was trying to help. my athletes including myself run fast so we must be doing something right, the cf methods that i revised slightly works...
    I wasn't trying to refute what you had to say or anything, I was just trying to figure out the reasons for your suggestion and get some discussion going about what would be best given my current situation. I appreciate your time and effort in helping me out.

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