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Thread: Ben's Max Squat

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Francis
    Tim was a good lifter for his weight but Marion was a modest lifter, especially the upper body.

    Charlie, please, could you tell us what numbers Tim and Marion did? In squat, bench, clean.. Thank you. Just for inspiration! :-)

  2. #42
    Administrator Charlie Francis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james colbert
    isn’t strength largely an expression of the neurology (inter/intramuscular coordination)?

    if so then shouldn’t training (schemes or reps and sets) be directed towards that which most efficiently "programs" the neurology to accomplish the given goal?

    training is the process of motor learning.

    does not the greatest and most rapid motor learning (toward the goal of strength) occur with maximal loads (in the form of inter/intramuscular coordination)?

    so should not training consist of maximal efforts as sub-maximal efforts require different motor patterns and are inefficient at programming the neurology (too great a number of compatible movement patterns which can effectively but not efficiently lift a given load)?
    What are you concerned about training/learning optimally? Weightlifting or your sport?

  3. #43
    sorry, just getting back into posting, have to learn how to make my posts clear again! i had in mind what you said, but i did not put it down right. thanks.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Francis
    We dropped the deads after 1984, as he was over 500lbs at that time and would only be going up. He'd done an extensive lifting program for 4 years by then.
    I felt we could gain stimulus better through advancing the squat, which still had room to grow safely. Eventually, we had to grow the numbers at an assumed safe limit.
    I've said this before that other athletes have been very strong in the squat.
    While Ben broke parallel in the squat, he wasn't butt to the ground. Stan Floyd told me he contest lifted 675 but hurt his back doing it (confirming for me that I was right to be paranoid!). I assume Stan must also have gone deeper for the lift to count but I don't know.
    Please e-mail with your flight details asap.
    Up until 1984, were you guys performing both squats and dead's? From your post I assume you felt the squat to be a safer lift than the DL? Or were you simply concerned about the CNS drain? PM me w/your e-mail and I'll provide you flight info. Thanks.

  5. #45
    Administrator Charlie Francis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobtomlinson
    Up until 1984, were you guys performing both squats and dead's? From your post I assume you felt the squat to be a safer lift than the DL? Or were you simply concerned about the CNS drain? PM me w/your e-mail and I'll provide you flight info. Thanks.
    We did both the squats and deads till then. E-mail to angela@charliefrancis.com
    My PM is disabled.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Francis
    What are you concerned about training/learning optimally? Weightlifting or your sport?
    yes i am concerned with motor learning optimally, optimal learning is the most rapid means to progress. weightlifting is a means to an end, despite what most people think there is a transfer to sport skill the key in this is understanding the role of intermuscular coordination, it is obvious the countribution of intramuscular coordination but intermuscular coordination is key to transfer to sports skill.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Francis
    Tim was a good lifter for his weight but Marion was a modest lifter, especially the upper body.
    Charlie--
    I have heard Tim squatted 315 deep (not full, but pretty deep)? Does that sound about right?

    If so, I would have expected more from such a fast guy. Any thoughts?

  8. #48
    i think its all relative, and that there is a minimum base level of relative strength, not everyone has the capability nor the need to be as strong as ben was. perhaps double his bodyweight is all he needs, as i believe it is very much an individual issue.

  9. #49

    Cfts

    As a principle, for a sprinter on the CFTS system, should one lean towards reps of 6 on the Squat and 3 on the bench, or max weights like Westside(1rep)?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CLJACKSON04
    As a principle, for a sprinter on the CFTS system, should one lean towards reps of 6 on the Squat and 3 on the bench, or max weights like Westside(1rep)?
    Depends on the phase, strengths, response and the conditioning/training age of the athlete. Provided the athlete is ready, I'd use a traditional MaxS method during the MaxS phase, with volumes and intensities as applicable to the athlete. I personnally do stray away from 1RM etc as the poundages get higher.

    With respect to you referencing 6 reps etc above in the question, I believe that Charlie used pretty traditional MaxS work with Ben during the early 80's (very similar to T. Bompa methods). As the poundages increased Charlie moved away from Bompa's 1 rep testing etc (not worth the risk as a sprinter) and deduced the required weights from performances at higher reps (such as 3 RM). As the weights still intensified, I think Charlie put a ceiling on the weight and decided not to go above Bens 6 RM weight. Not sure of the exact considerations leading to the 600 lb limit and the 6RM: perhaps a compromise between the upper level of MaxS and strength endurance? Charlie?

    Point of note through: the 6 RM was not achieved just by lifting sets of 6 throughout Bens whole career.

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