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Thread: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

  1. #71

    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    Quote Originally Posted by ESTI View Post
    This is very similar to what I use, but work around 3 minutes rest between runs and a little more between the sets, depending on weather, fitness level etc.

    I feel these runs really helped my 400m guys gain speed, along with 2-4 200m races per week during a 6 week competitive phase (high school level).
    The term "along with" is a bit ambiguous. Are you using these hard sessions in addition to 200m races during the competitive season or only in SPP, i.e. you meant to say that they work equally good?
    And in addition to 200m races they also run the 400 in the same week?

    I'm really interested to hear what your 400m kids, or anyone else's for that matter, in this age group can handle in terms of lactate load in a week.

  2. #72
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    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    Quote Originally Posted by martijn View Post
    The term "along with" is a bit ambiguous. Are you using these hard sessions in addition to 200m races during the competitive season or only in SPP, i.e. you meant to say that they work equally good?
    And in addition to 200m races they also run the 400 in the same week?

    I'm really interested to hear what your 400m kids, or anyone else's for that matter, in this age group can handle in terms of lactate load in a week.
    Read my journal from last season in the training journal threads.

    This winter my 400/800 kids, coming off XC season, went through 12 week GPP and ran near PBs in 800 with minimal distance work (less than 10 miles weekly). They ran mostly 800 indoors (I believe 4-5), 2 400s and 1 200.

    Without the 200 work, their 400 times were not great given their 800 improvement.

    In a given week during my HS season during meets, Tuesday and Sat are meets and they will run a variety of 200, 400 and 800 races, usually trying to get extra 200 and 400s when possible, saving only the 4x800 which we are top 10 in state, and the occasional 800 in dual meets which they can jog and win.

    On Thursday, depending on how I felt they were doing last season, we did 5x200 or some type of short split run to help improve speed.

    Having started some other kids (17 -18 yr old) on this training, I'm comfortable saying they need to be fit before starting. My 49 second kid came off basketball season, and this year those boys came off XC.

    Second, the runner must be mentally tough to get through the nasty split runs. Mentally weak runners will simply just jog the entire workout, which defeats the purpose. They are better off doing something less mentally demanding, maybe L-S 400 type training.

  3. #73

    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    Kitkat,

    There has been some discussion on another board about a very similar, but seemingly impossible, 400m workout. What do you think about 6 x 250 off 90secs in comehome pace (90% of 250m PB)? This seems extreme. Could any of your athletes ever complete something like that?

  4. #74
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    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    If you can do 6x200m at a pace that is 3s slower than your 200m PB (with perfect technique) and this pace is the same as your last 200m of the quarter mile AND you are also in 200m PB shape then I have never had an athlete not achieve the desired 400m time.

    E.g. 6x200m [2.5min] in 27s achieved. In competition the athlete ran 24.1 for 200m. 2 weeks later they ran 25.3/27 for 52.3s 400m PB.

    Of course they were also doing other special endurance sessions like 2x350m [40min] etc which were also on target for a 52s clocking but the 5-6x200m is a foundation for such a performance and a logical progression towards it.

  5. #75

    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    Quote Originally Posted by star61 View Post
    Kitkat,

    There has been some discussion on another board about a very similar, but seemingly impossible, 400m workout. What do you think about 6 x 250 off 90secs in comehome pace (90% of 250m PB)? This seems extreme. Could any of your athletes ever complete something like that?
    Thats a tough one......4 or 5 x250m off 5min in 87.5%-90% 250m best is a horendous session so to try it off 90sec I dont think could happen.

    With regards to the 200m session progression, is there merit in doing as many as possible in target time and simply working up to the 6 over the GPP and into the SPP? Might get three at first in trainers then progress to 4 or 5 then to 6 if done every 3-5 weeks? Just a thought.

  6. #76
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    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    Quote Originally Posted by tinsoldier View Post
    Thats a tough one......4 or 5 x250m off 5min in 87.5%-90% 250m best is a horendous session so to try it off 90sec I dont think could happen.

    With regards to the 200m session progression, is there merit in doing as many as possible in target time and simply working up to the 6 over the GPP and into the SPP? Might get three at first in trainers then progress to 4 or 5 then to 6 if done every 3-5 weeks? Just a thought.
    For sure that's possible, Tin. Look at TC's progression on page 7.

  7. #77

    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    Quote Originally Posted by NickP View Post
    For sure that's possible, Tin. Look at TC's progression on page 7.
    Nick,

    What progression are you writing about? Page 7 of what?

  8. #78
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    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    It's this one here, Star:

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCat
    To achieve the 5-6x200m for a developing quarter miler you will probably have to go through a progression like:

    3x200m
    2x200m [5min] 2x200m
    3x200m [5min] 2x200m
    3x200m [5min] 3x200m
    5x200m
    6x200m

    Doing this session once a week it usually takes 2 sessions at each progression to achieve target times. Depending on the athlete's endurance qualities they may need more than 5min between sets.

  9. #79

    Re: The way of the "400" Thanks to KK

    Quote Originally Posted by tinsoldier View Post
    Thats a tough one......4 or 5 x250m off 5min in 87.5%-90% 250m best is a horendous session so to try it off 90sec I dont think could happen.

    With regards to the 200m session progression, is there merit in doing as many as possible in target time and simply working up to the 6 over the GPP and into the SPP? Might get three at first in trainers then progress to 4 or 5 then to 6 if done every 3-5 weeks? Just a thought.
    Thats how my 400m guy managed to progress that come home 200m session Tin, just be patient with it, I'm sure you will get there. He just worked in trainers as he's prone to shin soreness, he just walks the recoveries to keep the pressure off the shins - just in case.

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